December 8, 2008

Rumor: Cisco Systems to lay off IT contractors

According to rumors from insider sources*, Cisco Systems to cancel several internal projects (including Web 2.0 and R&D projects), laying off IT contractors, most of them are H1B visa workers. Cisco IT contractors are not actual Cisco employees, they are working through ‘vendor’ companies (also known as ‘body shops’). But the layoffs are real. Most likely these layoffs will not be listed in the Company layoff statistics.

Update (02-04-2009): Cisco Systems: Possible large (up to 10 percent) jobs cut in 2009

Update (02-24-2009): Rumor: “1800 More just got laid off at Cisco”, Austin, TX

Update (02-25-2009): Cisco Confirms Global Job Cuts

Update (03-12-2009): Cisco quietly downsizing through outsourcing

*WARNING: We cannot guarantee the accuracy of information as it is only an individuals point of view. We will investigate and/or omit any complaints of inaccuracy.


  1. Any confirmation yet ? The rumors are flying here.

    Comment by Round Robin — December 8, 2008 @ 11:38 pm | Reply

  2. Round Robin, no confirmation yet. Rumors are everywhere at the company’s campus at McCarthy blvd, San Jose. There is some growing anxiety among “red badge” (contractors) population.

    Comment by DF — December 9, 2008 @ 11:08 am | Reply

  3. It is true that Cisco is laying off all IT contractors. They also paused many projects. I am one of the affected.

    Comment by sekveen — December 11, 2008 @ 11:57 am | Reply

  4. I have never witnessed wasteful spending as egregious by that of Cisco. If they cleaned up their act by cutting phone and internet service reimbursements for office employees, monitored spending on corporate cards, and eliminated weekend bonus pay for salaried workers, they could save enough money to save all these jobs.

    Comment by Bob — January 9, 2009 @ 9:00 pm | Reply

  5. Maybe americans can get their jobs back now?

    Comment by Bob — January 15, 2009 @ 9:57 pm | Reply

  6. It’s true, my former boss told me. I was out of his group by the time the layoff hit but all IT contractors were cut. I don’t have hard numbers but I hear the number is around 8000.

    Comment by 1022 — January 25, 2009 @ 8:01 am | Reply

  7. Hey guys, has the layoff already happened or will happen?

    Comment by Pericote — January 25, 2009 @ 10:32 pm | Reply

  8. I got Layed off from RTP this past week….They cut alot of service allowances for food and beverage which really affected a lot of folks.

    Comment by Former Red Badge — January 26, 2009 @ 2:32 pm | Reply

  9. Weekend bonus pay for salaried workers?? I wish my husband (a salaried Cisco worker) got that! Never has happened.

    Comment by usimpleman — January 26, 2009 @ 4:09 pm | Reply

  10. Yes the rumors are true. My friend was layed off today. They have not made a formal release, but it sounds like there will be more in the coming days.

    Comment by DR — January 26, 2009 @ 5:47 pm | Reply

  11. Where was your friend layed off, DR? What site? It seems to me that Chambers will do everything to keep layoffs from becoming public.

    Comment by Former Red Badge — January 26, 2009 @ 6:12 pm | Reply

  12. I believe Cisco has recruited a lot of network engineers and java programmers with work visa in past 2 years where those skills could have been easily trained and procured in US.

    the DOL and INS if they check on Cisco, am sure, the people of america will know the real truth.

    Comment by Ron — January 26, 2009 @ 9:05 pm | Reply

  13. Let’s be clear – letting go of contractors is not “laying off” but ending a contract. This is a completely separate matter. It may be an omen but not sure? Contractors are paid a premium for their services and ending the contract is always a part of the possibilities – regardless of economic times.

    So, are layoffs of FTE (full time employees) happening???!!

    Comment by Green Badge — January 27, 2009 @ 6:39 am | Reply

  14. #13: When I was ‘red-badging’ at the company, there were 1-2 FTEs and about 30-40 ‘red badges’ who were (check this!) reporting to those 1-2 FTEs, even though we’ve all been at the same engineering positions.
    Also ‘red badges’ were asked to work overtime, but prohibited to bill for overtime hours.
    So, to kick out a few dozens of ‘red badges’ – not a problem, and the company could do it quietly. To kick out a couple of FTEs – the company has to give them severance packages, inform state WARN, etc, etc.
    Location: Cisco campus at Tasman drive, San Jose, CA

    Comment by Next cubicle — January 27, 2009 @ 8:40 am | Reply

  15. […] Layoffs at Cisco Systems [1-29-2009] […]

    Pingback by Today’s Hot Layoff Topics « — January 29, 2009 @ 10:35 am | Reply

  16. what is your prediction/expectation at cisco while declaring quarterly results? on Feb-04-2009

    Comment by Ashok — January 29, 2009 @ 5:09 pm | Reply

  17. Indo-Asian workers dominate the technical staff in Silicon Valley (Cisco foreign operations crown jewel is India), and I do not think most American citizens will weep for the job loss of H1B visa workers.

    Comment by jack snyder — January 30, 2009 @ 8:27 pm | Reply

  18. Green badge @ 13:

    I was a red-badger for four years and as valuable as any of the green badgers I worked with. ±When you end ALL the IT contracts simultaneously, it’s a f*** layoff. Take your green badge adn shove it up your a**.

    Comment by Red Badge — January 30, 2009 @ 8:34 pm | Reply

  19. #13 Without commenting specifically on Cisco, HP or Google, a lawyer I know said the tech industry has a reputation for favoring younger workers. “The amount of age discrimination is absolutely outrageous,” he said. “In the high-tech industry, if you’re over 35, you’re over the hill.”

    “The Internet changes very rapidly,” he said. “This affects youngsters and oldsters. You can be outdated long before you’re old?just because technology is changing a lot faster than you are. As a contractor you can face sex and age bias and no Federal judge gives a $hit even if you must work do all of your work on site and your boss make Attila the Hun look line your Uncle Joe Stalin.” You can hide your age on your resume but your age will tell when hired or interviewed and the same goes for cripples and the blind.

    Comment by jack snyder — January 31, 2009 @ 1:29 pm | Reply

    • While Charlie Giancarlo was still Chief Development Officer, he made the statement that in 5 years, Cisco had actually aged 10 years. What he meant was that the average age of Cisco employees had increased by 10 years during the previous 5 years. He said he believed this, coupled with the fact that voluntary turnover was low at Cisco (said to be around 4%) was a bad thing for a company in his opinion. He then instituted “forced ranking” in groups (regardless of the abilities of the people in the groups) and those people unfortunate enough to land in the bottom 5% – 10% were given incentives to leave Cisco (such as not being eligible for salary increases or bonuses, which are a big part of Cisco employee’s compensation, being prevented from transferring internally within Cisco and being offered the standard Cisco severance package – 6 months salary – if they agreed to leave Cisco.

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 6:36 am | Reply

  20. If any organisation is retaining foreign guest workers. This is what you may have to do.

    If you know any foreign guest worker who is retained. The possiblity is that the organisation is also applying for Green Card for all these candidates. More often the job title of the candidate on the Green Card process is different than the actual job title, USCIS is unaware in most of the cases. The salary, the educational qualification is also different for most of the cases. This is because the Green Card has to be filed based on certain norms.

    Please inform USCIS and provide them with the details of the candidate, the location etc. Also cc these two Senators Durbin and Grassley. USCIS will take action. May be we can get some jobs back.

    Please pass these to all your friends and family members.

    Please act now, also add this to all the blogs that you know.

    Please act now…..

    Comment by Anonymous — February 1, 2009 @ 3:08 pm | Reply

  21. Cooks, drivers sent to US as engineers

    G S Vasu & Vikram SharmaFirst Published : 23 Jan 2009 01:48:00 AM ISTLast Updated : 23 Jan 2009 02:52:49 PM ISTHYDERABAD: A new dimension is emerging in the infamous Satyam saga. Information available with the Express suggests that thousands of people have been sent to the United States by the IT major on the basis of fake educational and employment certificates.

    Highly-placed sources told this paper that this has been happening over the years and it is possible that a significant number of them may or may not be with the company now.

    One reason for Satyam to resort to this step is the need for assistants of a varied nature — drivers, cooks, attenders, gardeners — for its highranking officials employed in the US.

    While Indians are available for a pittance, employing a US citizen for similar works is a far more costlier proposition. What is interesting is that a majority of those packed off to the US for sundry jobs (projecting them as engineers) come from villages in Ramalinga Raju’s native district West Godavari in coastal Andhra Pradesh. Most of them belong to his community.

    While Satyam employed North Indians in top positions, it chose those from Ahmedabad as low-level assistants.

    About 400 of them from Hyderabad figure in the long list of those sent to the US by manipulating the records. It is also possible that hiring officials in Satyam, who allegedly offered employment to job-seekers for pecuniary consideration, may have provided fake employment papers to those intending to go to the US if they are not Satyam associates.

    Politicians and others, whom Satyam has to keep in good humour, may also have used the Satyam label to obtain visas in cases where they have a vested interest.

    The CID wing of the AP Police, which is probing the Satyam scandal, has sniffed this angle too and is in the process of gathering details.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 1, 2009 @ 3:11 pm | Reply

  22. #20-#21

    Does any one remember the history of slavery and migrant workers in the U.S.?! If you do not you missed out on the demonic side of the human condition. Right now there is a greater incentive for some employers to hire illegal and or legal foreign workers because of the expectation of final reward and the reward is greater than any punishment. I mean the reward even in the face of a crime is greater than the punishment. The employer is given incentives by customers, investors and yes the state – weak labor laws, tax write offs and trade agreements all help the employer add value to their bottom line. Foreign labor look to America for greater economic opportunity not only for him or her self but their family, and the opportunity for gain is worth risking the punishment even life might be difficult if hired be they legal or illegal.

    Comment by jack snyder — February 1, 2009 @ 8:39 pm | Reply

  23. For all of you grumblers, h1 and contractors actually do *more* work and deserve to stay. They help keep the products coming out and building your economy. If it were not for them you would have been stuck with the few companies from the 80s, and there would not have been this huge IT industry, from which we all benefit. So please get real, and don’t give blind statements that the h1 should be layed off before citizens. What is the use of a citizen who does not work?

    Comment by — February 2, 2009 @ 7:00 am | Reply

  24. #23

    You make some valid points, but the problem you have not addressed is what are we as a society going to do with our surplus labor pool that is unemployed/unemployed as we face a crumbling tax base with under funded services from our energy grid, roads, bridges, schools, medical care delivery system, and elder care. America is not only facing fiscal crisis, but one of many with regards to global warming, wars, trade and human services. In less than 65 years we have gone from a superpower to an economy on life support that is kept alive by debt to China and Japan. Our tax system has become corrupting as has our business laws.

    George Bush owes almost his entire fortune to a tax increase that was funneled into his pocket and into the use of eminent domain laws to essentially legally cheat other people out of their land for less than it was worth to enrich him and his fellow investors. I quote is a prominent Republican lawyer married to a United States senator who is the expert in Texas on municipal finance. The subsidy, he says, is $202.5 million. And Bush and his partners captured about 168 million of it.

    Donald Trump benefits from a tax specifically levied by the State of New Jersey for the poor. Part of the casino winnings tax in New Jersey is dedicated to help the poor. But $89 million of it is being diverted to subsidize Donald Trump’s casino’s building retail space.

    That’s right. And that’s always the biggest scandal is what is legal. Steve Jobs. Well, Steve Jobs got $70 million of stock options at a meeting of the board of Apple company directors that never took place.

    In fact, Steve Jobs arranged to have his fraudulently-issued options exchanged for restricted stock worth hundreds of millions. And the government did not take any action against him. Mean while under the Bush Admin the courts and the Bush Admin made it harder for small investors to sue. Jobs did not have to hire a lawyer, Apple investors hired gave him one.

    The state prosecuted two people under him, one of whom said, “I warned Mr. Jobs about this.” Mr. Jobs says, “You know I really didn’t understand the rules.” For the past 8+ years the tax payers not only gave major companies tax cuts but incentives, but companies like Cisco and Google added more jobs over seas than they did here and opine that they can not find applicants here and they fight any tax that could be used to improve our public school system or schools like San Jose State must go begging. You know who gets the lion share of corporate money in education – well it is not State U or U State, but the schools that need it the least.

    One of your most revealing stories from the books David Cay Johnston for me is about the small merchant of a fishing and outdoor gear who’s put out of business by a big competitor who gets $32 million in subsidies from the local government.

    Well, you know, if you walk into many of the big box retailers today, you have to pay sales tax at the cash register on whatever you buy. Well, in many of those stores, the government never gets the money. The owners of the stores get to keep it. And who are the big beneficiaries of that? The Walton family that owns Wal-Mart and the Cabela family who own Cabela’s, which is a fin, feather, and fur outfitting club for fishermen and hunters. And in this little town — in the Poconos, 4,100 people — they came and said, “We want to build the world’s largest outdoor store. $32 million dollars. And the local town fathers went for it because they said all these jobs it’ll create and all this economic benefit. And Jim Weaknecht who runs this little tiny store that makes enough money that his wife can stay home and raise their children.

    He’s outraged. He goes, “Nobody gave me a subsidy. If I had gone to City Hall and said, ‘Give me a million dollars,’ they would have laughed at me.” And, you know, he charged lower prices than Cabela’s. They still ran him out of business. This little town gave the Cabela family the equivalent of about 11 years of the entire city budget for police and fixing the streets and everything else. And this is going on all across America. Cabela promised jobs and more money flowing through the economy but that hasn’t happened.

    You know, we used to put people to death 500 years ago for loaning money for usury. And for a long time the government regulated the kind of interest that you could charge. And then we had a Supreme Court decision in 1978. And the Supreme Court in that said, you know, ’cause the way the law’s written we’re basically undoing the usury laws in this country. And Congress, pay attention, you need to do something to address this. Well, Congress did. Discovered it was a fabulous way to milk banks and related companies for campaign contributions. Today banks will tell you that if usury is good for the banks it good for America and they must ding every one because a few debts will be bad. U know what is the biggest profit center for banks – it’s not home loans but credit cards.

    It’s not about living with in your means but living because wages have been flat for years but prices have not folks try to fill in the difference with credit. The leading cause of bankruptcy is not folks avoiding debts but they face death, bad health, job income loss and divorce. Now you can save up for 6 months but what does one do after 6 months with no job to match the debts, cut backs and the cost of having a pulse.

    Comment by jack snyder — February 2, 2009 @ 12:33 pm | Reply

    • Since 2001, Cisco have been hiring contractors based in India to replace US engineers who were leaving Cisco. Since at least 2007, Cisco has been actively outsourcing US engineers and sending the jobs to India.

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 6:40 am | Reply

  25. Well, that tremendous economic growth we thought we had for the past 30 years has turned out to be a big ponzi scheme. Despite the bust and I mean some investors and executives walked away very rich after firing the serfs. Most are still in their office. According to Kevin Phillips they and very important others including the state stood by and did nothing or simply assisted them in a crime against the People. They cooked the books, they spun the facts and misreported the real news. The problem is where it’s going. The increases in income and wealth are all taking place at the very top. In fact 2005 the richest one percent increased their income by far more than the total income of the bottom 20 percent. My contention is that it is government policy that is causing this to happen, that in all sorts of different ways there was a time when government policy was to create and nurture and build a middle class. We have a GI bill. We built an interstate highway system. We invested in education and hospitals. Now we have a government whose policy is to enrich the already rich and make them richer. That’s its focus. And I believe that if we continue down that road you create instability and you don’t create as much wealth. The system is so broken that the state EDD office can do no more than help one file for a few months of unemployment benefits and help you write a resume no matter if you have a PhD or a GED.

    Comment by jack snyder — February 2, 2009 @ 12:56 pm | Reply

  26. Any layoff at Cisco 2009?

    Comment by John nguyen — February 2, 2009 @ 1:15 pm | Reply

    • YES! Cisco has been laying off and outsourcing to India US based engineers in small enough numbers which Cisco refers to as “limited restructuring” starting at least as early as 2007, such that they do not have to file a WARN notice since the numbers are below the minimum number required to trigger the WARN notice.

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 6:43 am | Reply

  27. No

    Comment by Mike — February 2, 2009 @ 2:06 pm | Reply

  28. I am not aware of Cisco filling a WARN notice with the state of Calofornia, but I suppose if they did so last month the layoff will come no later than March

    Comment by jack snyder — February 2, 2009 @ 3:50 pm | Reply

  29. They don’t have to file a WARN notice to cut contractors. They just cut us loose. They just cut a friend of mine with NO notice. Cisco is full of bastards.

    Comment by Red Badge — February 2, 2009 @ 3:53 pm | Reply

  30. The WARN Act does not apply to contractors, you are right, Red Badge, but it also does not apply to some temp or full time workers under some exemptions and conditions. When labor come to terms with the fact that they serve at the pleasure of the employer and at his will, they can stop being a VICTIM and become proactive until then they can play the VIOLIN and keep blaming the employer about how mean and heartless he is. Right now most are happy to be a working lap dog

    Comment by jack snyder — February 2, 2009 @ 4:43 pm | Reply

  31. Managers in cisco systems are highly corrupted, particularly Indian managers, they are highly benefitted from contracting company. a friend of mine said these managers demand around 5-10 dollar per hour per contractor from these consulting companies. here is the way it works

    when there is a req, managers will contact only specific consulting company (resumes will be automatically rejected if it is send by other companies) the cost is high due to managers comission, so they prefer only people in H1B visa

    Attitude of an Indian in H1B visa —-

    A H1B visa holder Indian will always think of stability and try to get his greencard, he will be ready to compromise for lower billing rate, this makes an advantage to these consulting companies.

    I can list the cisco managers names and their connections with those consulting companies.

    Comment by Apurva — February 3, 2009 @ 7:36 am | Reply

  32. Apurva,

    Do everybody a favor and post the names of the managers. Time to clean up.

    Comment by John Daniel — February 3, 2009 @ 9:41 am | Reply

  33. I cover Cisco for the Wall Street Journal. Anyone who wants to talk about employment issues there can reach me at

    Comment by Ben Worthen — February 3, 2009 @ 9:55 am | Reply

  34. Many managers directly and indirectly (family and friends name) have consulting agency that deals with cisco

    These manager behave rude with red badge consultants, in case the consultant raise voice, their contract will be termiated immediate.

    most of these consultants are in H1B visa

    in the past 1.5 years, I’ve made several complain to Cisco HR and anonymous complain (1-800 number), I didn’t see any action to these corrupted managers and there is no change in their behaviour

    partial list of corrupted managers:

    […removed by moderator…]

    This is just a partial list, I can provide more managers but still it may not the complete list. the numbers will be more, I would say almost 99% (yes 99% of Indian managers in Cisco have connection to a consulting company getting personal benefit)

    most of the reqs. are opened but they don’t add real value to the cisco, they just hire INDIAN consultant to maximize their comission

    I have suggestion to reduct these corruption

    The whole system in cisco IT should be audited and reviewed

    Comment by Apurva — February 3, 2009 @ 11:35 am | Reply

    • Is there any action on these managers?

      Comment by walid — March 16, 2009 @ 6:52 am | Reply

  35. also I forget to mention, I find some contractors already left the cisco, but the companies still charge cisco (with the manager’s blessings)

    when a contractor gone for vacation (with loss of pay), there is no written notification to cisco only his manager knows this – companies charge to cisco in these period

    Comment by Apurva — February 3, 2009 @ 11:39 am | Reply

  36. #33: Ben, you are welcome to read this thread. All concerns are logged here.

    Comment by DF — February 3, 2009 @ 12:04 pm | Reply

    • Ben, Is there any action on these managers?

      Comment by walid — March 16, 2009 @ 6:52 am | Reply

  37. apurva,
    which cisco units are you referring to

    Comment by scummer — February 3, 2009 @ 1:51 pm | Reply

  38. I work for IT, so I am referring to IT. I don’t know about other groups

    Comment by Apurva — February 3, 2009 @ 1:57 pm | Reply

  39. Database: See the unemployment rate in your California community or county.
    When I searched the data base above for Cisco. I did not see any thing there. Looks like Cisco wants to hide this info from the public.

    Comment by John nguyen — February 3, 2009 @ 2:30 pm | Reply

  40. Indian workers and managers do not set Cisco corporate hiring, compensation and termination policy. They are straw men. Corporate policy as to who gets hired, terminated, promoted and paid what is set by senior executives and they by and large are White men. Keep in mind that the CEO of Cisco is a White man.

    Comment by jack snyder — February 3, 2009 @ 3:28 pm | Reply

  41. It was brought to my attention recently that Cisco (or any company for that matter) can get around the WARN notice by doing the following in order:

    1. Have layoffs
    2. Give the affected employees 60 days PAID by remaining on the payroll, but employees are asked to leave the company and given restricted access to the facilities. The actual layoff date is 60 days in the future.
    3. Notify WARN of the “planned” layoffs.
    4. Give additional severance , if appropriate.

    So you see, they still notify WARN 60 days ahead of the actual layoff date.

    Comment by tigger — February 3, 2009 @ 3:59 pm | Reply

  42. All Infosys staff has been sent back to Bangalore. No Onsite placements for the foreseeable future. Rents are going to drop big time in the South Bay.

    Comment by Eneya — February 3, 2009 @ 6:04 pm | Reply

  43. #41 Some major loopholes of the federal WARN Act are described here:


    No particular form of record is required. The information employers will use to determine whether, to whom, and when they must give notice is information that employers usually keep in ordinary business practices and in complying with other laws and regulations.


    An employer who violates the WARN provisions by ordering a plant closing or mass layoff without providing appropriate notice is liable to each aggrieved employee for an amount including back pay and benefits for the period of violation, up to 60 days. The employer’s liability may be reduced by such items as wages paid by the employer to the employee during the period of the violation and voluntary and unconditional payments made by the employer to the employee.

    An employer who fails to provide notice as required to a unit of local government is subject to a civil penalty not to exceed $500 for each day of violation. This penalty may be avoided if the employer satisfies the liability to each aggrieved employee within 3 weeks after the closing or layoff is ordered by the employer.


    Enforcement of WARN requirements is through the United States district courts. Workers, representatives of employees and units of local government may bring individual or class action suits. In any suit, the court, in its discretion, may allow the prevailing party a reasonable attorney’s fee as part of the costs. The Department of Labor, since it has no administrative or enforcement responsibility under WARN, cannot provide specific advice or guidance with respect to individual situations.

    For employers forced to cut staff, a frightening trend is emerging: An alarming number of employees aren’t taking their dismissals lying down.

    Experts have noted an increased number of employee-based lawsuits. Unprepared firms are finding themselves on the hook.

    The majority of suits have either alleged discrimination (with age as the top reason), or violations of the federal Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification (WARN) Act, an act requiring 60 days’ advance notice for mass layoffs and closings. Other lawsuits from dismissed workers include FMLA disputes, the Fair Labor Standards Act, as well as overtime and wage issues.

    In general most high tech workers are not aware of the WARN Act and that’s very good for the employer, and those that are aware are not eager to file a law suit or formal legal complaint just as they are not eager to file in age, race or gender bias cases. The folk wisdom is move on to the next job and not rock the boat because you might sour your job prospects.

    Comment by jack snyder — February 3, 2009 @ 7:36 pm | Reply

  44. I do not think most states are looking over the shoulders of the companies as to their layoff records and policies – state departments simply lack the power and authority, the labor and the money to do so in too many cases. The states and the Feds have shifted the burden of proof to YOU the employee.

    Comment by jack snyder — February 3, 2009 @ 7:39 pm | Reply

  45. The WARN Act is not activated when a covered employer:

    * Closes a temporary facility or completes a temporary project, and the employees working in the facility or temporary project were hired with the clear understanding that their employment would end with the closing of the work facility or the completion of the project; or
    * Closes a facility or operating unit because of a strike or a worker lock-out, and the closing is not intended to evade the purposes of the WARN Act.

    The WARN Act also is not activated when the following coverage thresholds are unmet:

    * If a plant closing or a mass layoff results in fewer than 50 workers losing their jobs at a single employment site;
    * If 50-499 workers lose their jobs and that number is less than 33 per cent of the employer’s total, active workforce at a single employment site;
    * If a layoff is for 6 months or less; or
    * If work hours are not reduced 50 per cent in each month of any 6-month period.

    There are three (3) exceptions to the full 60-day notice requirement, however, the notice must be provided as soon as practicable, even when these exceptions apply, and the employer must provide a statement of the reason for shortening the notice requirement in addition to fulfilling other notice information requirements. These three exceptions are:

    * Faltering company: When, before a plant closing, a company is actively seeking capital or business and reasonably, in good faith, believes that advance notice would preclude its ability to obtain such capital or business, and this new capital or business would allow the employer to avoid or postpone the shutdown for a reasonable period;

    * Unforeseeable business circumstances: When the closing or mass layoff is caused by business circumstances that were not reasonably foreseeable at the time that the 60-day notice would have been required (i.e. a business circumstance caused by some sudden, dramatic, and unexpected action(s) or condition(s) beyond the employer’s control, such as a major order’s unexpected cancellation, plant or office shut down, take over or closing by legal authorities (such as the U.S. Justice Department, the police or the IRS) or fire, human incident such as warfare, acts of mass terror and physical destruction, chemical or biohazards, water or smoke damage); or

    * Natural disaster: When a plant closing or mass layoff is the direct result of a natural disaster such as a flood, an earthquake, a drought, a storm, a tidal wave, or the similar effects of nature. In such cases, notice may be given after the event.

    Comment by jack snyder — February 3, 2009 @ 8:19 pm | Reply

  46. #42: Infosys did exactly the same at Symbol Technologies (San Jose, CA) during the acquisition by Motorola (year 2006): they took most of the people from different groups back to India and replaced with a new ones when acquisition was completed.

    Comment by Bubba — February 3, 2009 @ 9:42 pm | Reply

  47. It is widely known that Cisco made a trade agreement with the state of India to enter the Indian market. In exchange for entry Cisco like so many other Western companies agreed to retain, hire, contract and out source with India. These agreements are not limited to but includes labor, material, real property, equipment and services with the governments of India and Indian companies. With these agreements Cisco enjoys the right to do business in India. Labor under this agreement is just another commodity that can be imported and or exported with regards to contract and transnational law. In the end Cisco creates Cisco India with a labor pool trained here and there in the ways of Cisco culture and business. India gets the opportunity to raise its standard of living. Indians get new jobs both here and there and some of those job make new investments both here and in India

    Comment by jack snyder — February 3, 2009 @ 11:16 pm | Reply

  48. My neighbor (FTE) was recently laid off from Cisco. Job was sent to India but was supposed to transition to a new project. Never happened. According to them Cisco IS doing a LOT of mini layoffs of FTE (50-60 at a time) in exactly the manner described previously. 60 days notice during which you are still a Cisco employee but no job responsibilities (except to look for a new job in Cisco). They have done an AMAZING job of keeping these layoffs out of the public eye. Also according to my neighbor the very few jobs available in the US before the hiring freeze were reporting to an Indian manager in the US, who reports to an Indian Director in the US, who reports to an Indian VP in the US who reports to the American (aka white) CEO. Just guess where your career might be going in that setup. You can bet there will be more FTE layoffs in 2009. But you won’t hear about them unless they are forced to do a massive layoff to console shareholders.

    Comment by Green Friend — February 4, 2009 @ 7:10 am | Reply

  49. This Jack Snyder guy looks like an Indian manager to me….I could smell the blood…

    Comment by Anonymous — February 4, 2009 @ 8:17 am | Reply

  50. #42 infosys staff sending back to Banglore has no impact in South Bay rental market, hardly there will be 2k infosys staff working in california some of their clients are cancelling their accounts.

    most of the infosys staff illegally share their apartment say 5-6 or more persons per 2br apartment. There are many other factors for South Bay rent decline

    Comment by Senthil — February 4, 2009 @ 9:06 am | Reply

  51. Green Friend,
    What did your neighbor do at cisco (If you don’t mind my asking)?

    Comment by Casey — February 4, 2009 @ 9:07 am | Reply

  52. Green Friend, which city do you live in ?

    Comment by Eneya — February 4, 2009 @ 9:17 am | Reply

  53. Folks,

    Cisco has consistently laid off FTEs for many years. None of this is really news. Corporate HR has a mandate that forces Mgrs to identify the bottom 5% performers and let them go. Most big companies do this. Cisco has over 70k employees. Letting go 50-60 here or there is just not a big deal (unless you’re the one that’s canned). Cisco is also doing what most big US companies have been doing for the last few years, and that’s sending jobs overseas. Sure, it’s for lower-wage earners, but it’s also to get a foothold in those countries where it sees growth.

    I’m a strong proponent of ending this whole H-1B fiasco. There are more than enough jobs in India and China now and we simply do not need these people in the US anymore. Instead of harping about how great foreign workers are here in the US, why dont these “hard workers” stay in their native countries and do better for their own nations? The US has more than enough smart, hard-working people. The notion that we need foreigners to supplant our workforce is just not true and is an insult to the American people. Write your representatives and pressure them to end the entire H-1B and L1 programs.

    Comment by anon — February 4, 2009 @ 9:22 am | Reply

  54. Send home all those temporary workers and their descendants who immigrated into the US starting from 1700 AD. This land belongs to Native Americans. We want our land back! Foreigners go away!

    Comment by Native American — February 4, 2009 @ 9:34 am | Reply

  55. #49 The United States and India made trade agreement some years ago and these agreements have been expanded by every president since Raygun these agreements allowed American and Indian employers to do business often to the disadvantage of American workers because free trade is not about Labor as human being but Labor as a Commodity. In the world of speculators, finance and banking just about every thing is a commodity. I think what the book, “The World Is Flat” got wrong is about labor. There is a world wide push to create uniform flat wages even in the face of rising prices and the cost of manufacturing.

    Visit any department store in the USA and you will find meager price differences (excluding sales taxes and such mandates as cars), and in every state the real cost of living is about the same excluding housing, taxes, health care and energy.

    I wish I could make #49 feel better but the system as we have now is not going to get any better according to Kevin Phillips and David Cay Johnston. Right now you and I are up against big money lobbyist, corporations, laws/regulations, the courts and the public that wants everyday low prices even if you earn only $8 an hour and if in China you make $1.25 an hour. The wage/income gap has been flat for over 30 years and if you are average you try to beat the system with DEBT both good and bad.

    More education might make Obama or Cisco feel better, but a Ford or IBM worker with a PhD can not compete with a Indian worker!, because of the wage gap. That’s why just about all consumer electronics are made some where else but the USA.

    Guess which Western country has the biggest wage/income gap in the Western Developed World? The USA.

    Comment by jack snyder — February 4, 2009 @ 9:46 am | Reply

  56. Remember I talked about the decline in South bay rentals, not the entire state of california. Thanks to their below market wages most of Infosys contractors live in groups, share a car or use the public transit system. Infosys charges 90$ a hour to Cisco and pays their employees the minimum wage required by the DOL i.e. between 60-70k per year. The rest goes into the balance sheet and is distributed via dividends taxed at 10% as per Indian laws. Infosys shareholders including directors like Narayana Murthy and Nilekani benefit the most in this transfer of wealth. This is the new way of doing business in the USA.
    The south bay rental market is heavily influenced by temporary workers and as these workers exit, supply is freed up, driving rents down. If you have any doubt just call up any apt complex and ask them. In Cupertino I’ve seen rents dropping by 20%.

    Comment by Eneya — February 4, 2009 @ 9:55 am | Reply

  57. #41 sounds like typical Cisco hiring manager (chineese oirigin) from Cisco building 24, San Jose campus

    Comment by Bubba — February 4, 2009 @ 9:57 am | Reply

  58. #56: if this is the case, Fremont should have bigger drop – lots of Cisco contractors are living there. Have you ever seen 880->237Hwy or 680->237Hwy traffic each day? It is terrible.

    Comment by DF — February 4, 2009 @ 10:02 am | Reply

  59. I drive on 101 and the drive has been much better then ever. 880/237 has been terrible for over 10 years. Since I know for sure the contractors are gone, Milpitas/Fremont should drop as well.

    Comment by Eneya — February 4, 2009 @ 10:10 am | Reply

  60. #56 I live in South Bay and rent only goes up during the last 3-4 years – at least in the complexes I lived at/inquired about.

    I suppose the decrease in temporary workers gets compensated by people moving from houses to apartments.

    Comment by 7macaw — February 4, 2009 @ 10:19 am | Reply

  61. #59: Not only ciscos are using 880/237. Nvidia, Juniper.. Also huge amount of folks traveling 880/237/101. The traffic sucks 10 years ago, it sucks now. They should extend BART from Fremont down to San Jose to get rid of this permanent traffic.

    Comment by DF — February 4, 2009 @ 10:20 am | Reply

  62. I agree, Bart is the way to go to unclog 880. However that discussion in on a different blog :)

    Comment by Eneya — February 4, 2009 @ 10:34 am | Reply

  63. I used to rent in 2003 for $1085 in Santa Clara. The same place went for $1800 during the dot-com boom and 1600$ last year. The rental market is very dynamic

    Comment by Eneya — February 4, 2009 @ 10:36 am | Reply

  64. I live in a Sunnyvale area apartment complex with only 8 units. The rent is lower than most because it does not have things like a dishwasher, community center, or pool. It’s an old unit circa 1960 with Zero insulation. My next door neighbor is a technocrat from India – he is single but he has almost no furniture and has been in the unit for about one year in his one bed room unit. Prior to his move in 4 Indian technocrats lived in this one bed room, and at one time 6-8 lived in a 2 bed room unit and most slept in sleeping bags. The landlord does not give a damn until things the community order falls apart

    Comment by jack snyder — February 4, 2009 @ 10:37 am | Reply

  65. I think in about 30 years most of the Mt View and Sunnyvale area is going to be one apartment ghetto as the cities milk as much money from renters and in return invest nothing but more police and strip malls and auto sales lots

    Comment by jack snyder — February 4, 2009 @ 10:41 am | Reply

  66. Hello Jack Snyder, just wanted to know how many of your predictions have come true? What’s your track record in forecasting events?

    Comment by Eneya — February 4, 2009 @ 10:56 am | Reply

  67. #65: With upcoming green-energy boom, the Silicon Valley might move somewhere else

    Comment by DF — February 4, 2009 @ 10:57 am | Reply

  68. Very good. It’s about trend watching and paying attention to the obvious. It’s nothing to do with my feeling but being detached from my own bias. Take my word for it – I do not like what I’ve seen nor what I see…most of it is not sweet

    Comment by jack snyder — February 4, 2009 @ 11:15 am | Reply

  69. #67 Most of those green jobs are not going to go to the natives. China is not going to stand still just about any thing Americans can manufacture China, India and the East can do it cheaper in the long term. They will get a better handle on quality control as they learn from Japan, South Korea, Europe and the USA. That’s what the East did with television and studio equipment – the USA is not in the TV business beyond programming or content. We are losing out in cars, steel and all major manufacturing where you could make good money working. Visit most construction sites and you’ll find lots of Browns working and not many Whites in the South, South West and the West. Old blue collar jobs is not something most young White boys and girls or even Blacks care to enter such as being a plumber and far to many study Liberal Arts and find them selves in a dead end job, unemployed or under employed.

    Comment by jack snyder — February 4, 2009 @ 11:27 am | Reply

  70. #69, “Most of those green jobs are not going to go to the natives. China is not going to stand still just about any thing Americans can manufacture China, India and the East can do it cheaper in the long term.” — before manufacturing it cheaper, you have to invent and design it first. Super creativity is a must. I strongly believe that the most revolutionary ideas will come out the door of Berkley, MIT, Stanford laboratories, before it will be copied in Asia.

    Comment by DF — February 4, 2009 @ 11:40 am | Reply

  71. Cisco like so many other companies now earn the bulk of their monies from foreign operations. It is a multinational with only weak ties to the city of Santa Clara. Most of it’s manufacturing is not in the state of California. When stop think about nationalism you’ll see that the American free traders stopped being Americans back in the 1950s

    Comment by chance — February 4, 2009 @ 11:41 am | Reply

  72. We are exporting intellectual property and processes at a rapid rate because of technology and trade laws. MIT and our technical universities trains more foreign born students than they do native born grad students. In the 1980s-1990s China and India did lots of back end development, but that is not the case any more because American companies now have major operations in the East. We are seeing the beginnings of Eastern born Nobel prize winners. At Cal more than 40% of the student body are noneWhite, about 50% of the technical workers in Silicon valley are “Foreign Born”. MIT might do the R&D but the manufacturing will be in the East and India. That’s just not my opinion but in all the studies released as of todate including in a white paper by a Nobel wining economist. Any idea or process that can be outsourced is being outsourced because information is in the human neurons.

    Comment by chance — February 4, 2009 @ 11:53 am | Reply

  73. #71: “now earn the bulk of their monies from foreign operations” — this is already in the past. With global crisis, selling new routers, video conference and voip equipment to the company’s traditional clients (banks, big corps) who are looking for bailout money and cutting expenses, becomes problematic.

    Comment by DF — February 4, 2009 @ 11:53 am | Reply

  74. You see we are training Indian technocrats and some of them are going home and forming their own companies and they get incentives from their schools and government and investors

    Comment by chance — February 4, 2009 @ 11:56 am | Reply

  75. #72: “because American companies now have major operations in the East” — with the growing economy at rates 11% a year — sure, why not! With the economy growing almost flat (unable to employ millions of new workers and provide social benefits to retirees each year) — those big companies will say “bye-bye”!

    Comment by DF — February 4, 2009 @ 11:59 am | Reply

  76. #74: the reality is that most of those companies are offshore bodyshops — just to employ java/oracle code monkeys working 100% for US market.

    Comment by DF — February 4, 2009 @ 12:01 pm | Reply

  77. #75-76

    “The U.S. tax system does provide an incentive to locate production offshore,” says Martin Sullivan, a contributing editor to Tax Notes, a non-profit publication that tracks tax issues.

    At issue is the U.S. tax code’s treatment of profits earned by foreign subsidiaries of American corporations. Profits earned in the United States are subject to the 35% corporate tax. But multinational corporations can defer paying U.S. taxes on their overseas profits until they return them to the USA — transfers that often don’t happen for years. General Electric, for example, has $62 billion in “undistributed earnings” parked offshore, according to recent Securities and Exchange Commission filings. Drug giant Pfizer boasts $60 billion. ExxonMobil has $56 billion.

    “If you had two companies in Pittsburgh that both were going to expand capacity and create 100 jobs, our tax code puts the company who chooses to put the plant in Pittsburgh at a competitive disadvantage over the company that chooses to move to a tax haven,” says former White House economist Gene Sperling, a Clinton adviser.

    Comment by chance — February 4, 2009 @ 12:12 pm | Reply

  78. Since WW II there is little real incentive for working but there is a greater one for investing. The tax code does not reward one for getting a college education but we do so for buying a car or using a car in business. That’s a farce that Americans vote for year after year

    Comment by chance — February 4, 2009 @ 12:16 pm | Reply

  79. Their might be a greater economic incentive (see tax laws) to hire foreign workers than the natives than a economic or moral/ethical reason for them not too do so. I mean when economics is all about the interest of their investors they care little about you being stuck in traffic, not being able to buy insurance or about your 401K plan

    Comment by Jack — February 4, 2009 @ 12:40 pm | Reply

  80. My manager was saying yesterday that Cisco is have $1 billion gap in their report that expected, I fear there is going to be a huge cost cutting in addition to what is happening current

    Comment by Senthil — February 4, 2009 @ 12:56 pm | Reply

  81. Most infosys and offshore based company’s technocrafts stay in cheap apartments, I didn’t see that specifc factor is going to affect all rental units in South Bay

    Comment by Senthil — February 4, 2009 @ 12:58 pm | Reply

  82. #80: Senthil, please inform us here once you get the info.

    Comment by Bubba — February 4, 2009 @ 1:08 pm | Reply

  83. That’s a standard business practice for none executive labor, Senthil. Right here in the good old USA they expect you to be “flexible” — work for $15 an hour in Mississippi because life is dirt cheap and there is no state income tax even if you earn $25 in San Jose. On the other hand executives at Chevron over in San Ramon makes about the same as a Exxon executive in Dallas. The highest paid executives on earth are those the American Fortune 500 even if those at money losing companies.

    Comment by Jack — February 4, 2009 @ 1:16 pm | Reply

  84. What is the severance package at CISCO layoff?

    Comment by FD — February 6, 2009 @ 9:35 am | Reply

    • 60 days to find a job within Cisco followed by 4 months salary as severance plus all accrued vacation time. Cisco also pays for Cobra insurance during the 4 months severance.

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 7:14 am | Reply

  85. Any severance package for the affected employees?
    No info public information available.

    Comment by bluejazz — February 6, 2009 @ 5:28 pm | Reply

  86. provides information on the 2001 package

    Comment by bluejazz — February 6, 2009 @ 5:31 pm | Reply

  87. Severance for FTE at cisco is generally 6 months paid (Total)… First 2 months, you look for internal jobs, but stop working in your current job. After that, if you havent found anything, you are terminated.

    The groups that have already been dropped are mostly hardware testing, which has been moved offshore, and most of those employees found internal positions (if they had any real skills).

    There are still many internal positions open for movement of jobs from one area to another, so as of today, if you cant find another internal job, you just dont have a broad enough skillset.

    As of right now, no broad layoffs are happening. I do feel though that if 10% was to come as a broad layoff … it should be the h1 jobs that go first, as the basis for those is inherantly that no citizen who is qualified has applied for the job … this a NEED has to be filled.

    Still lots of positions open and a decent housing market available in RTP !!

    Comment by Jeff — February 7, 2009 @ 6:17 am | Reply

    • Conditions have changed a lot since your post. Very few jobs that are posted are in the US. Most are in India or China. Some sites, e.g. Boxborough, MA currently have NO openings.

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 12:21 pm | Reply

  88. Look for layoffs if any by the end of March if any – that’s the close of the first quarter when Cisco must state their numbers to the street and the SEC.

    John Chambers is optimistic that his company can emerge from the current recession without major layoffs. Instead Chambers claimed that Cisco (NASDAQ:CSCO) is realigning its workforce to take advantage of opportunities for growth. This is another way of saying he is cutting heads in a manner that Cisco can avoid making it news under the WARN ACT.

    There is no necessary connection to being fired, laid off or other wise being terminated for skill set or job performance. Studies have shown that one can be cut simply for being of the wrong team, age, salary, ethnic group, gender, work performance, skill set or simply because the company needs to reduce the head count.

    Comment by Dr_NightShade — February 7, 2009 @ 11:23 am | Reply

  89. I don’t want to work for Cisco. In this economy, most employers try to do every thing to help their employees. But Cisco, with a Q2 profit of 1.9B and 29.5B in cash; still want to layoff 1500-2000 workers.

    Comment by No Cisco Please — February 7, 2009 @ 11:24 am | Reply

    • Not to mention the 20% that they want to outsource to India. It is a stated goal of Cisco to have 20% of the work force based in India.

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 12:19 pm | Reply

  90. When you are a public company you are under the foot of investors and investors always want more – they expect and I mean demand that you out perform your numbers each and every quarter. HR managers know that few of us are going to be around to RETIRE.

    Comment by Dr_NightShade — February 7, 2009 @ 1:36 pm | Reply

  91. John Chambers is a pig.

    Comment by Red Badge — February 7, 2009 @ 2:03 pm | Reply

  92. Man is the only creature that can look a pig in the eye and see his equal. Some times I think the pig smiles back.

    Comment by Dr_NightShade — February 7, 2009 @ 2:54 pm | Reply

  93. Cisco may be reading the IBM, General Electric or the old AT&T playbook. Employers can raise their standards for a selected employees that they wish to terminate. What was an annual job review becomes a sudden review or a quartley or semiannual review. The employer raises the qualifying bar while knowing the employee will resign or take early retirement if not terminated. Loyal employees will opine that terminated employee was dead wood, not a team player, unfit to serve and so on. This event can be that of seasoned worker or that of one with a golden work record.

    These types of cuts lower the costs of termination and adds more value to the company bottom line

    Comment by Dr_NightShade — February 7, 2009 @ 3:19 pm | Reply

  94. These are the kind of managers who need to have someone go postal on them, like that guy in Sunnyvale last fall. It’s going to happen more, too.

    Comment by Red Badge — February 7, 2009 @ 3:31 pm | Reply

  95. Jing Hua Wu, who was recently fired from his job as a product test engineer, was arrested on for the triple murder of his former colleagues at SiPort (Santa Clara, CA). After losing his job, Wu went back into his former place of employment one late Friday afternoon, opening fire and killing company executives Sid Agrawal age 56 CEO and founder, Brian Pugh age 47 VP of operations, and Marilyn Lewis age 67 director of HR. Police officers found Wu at around 10:45 a.m. Saturday near El Camino Real and Grant Road in Mountain View. He was “arrested without incident and faces execution if found guilty of the charges of murder. It has been reported that Wu had been employed at Siport for about two years before his termination.

    Comment by Dr_NightShade — February 7, 2009 @ 5:43 pm | Reply

  96. #95: it was posted here before:
    The guy is in jail; the company is half-dead.

    Comment by Bubba — February 7, 2009 @ 7:08 pm | Reply

  97. #96 Thanks. I think there will be more of that to come as the economy sours. Funny thing about Americans. In most other nations they march or riot, but we will have none of that in Washington DC. We write very angry letters, blow our brains out, or murder our own families. We showed Obama just how much change we wanted – not much but with more tax cuts.

    Comment by Dr_NightShade — February 7, 2009 @ 7:16 pm | Reply

  98. In America, the only people that protest labor conditions and related matters are unions, but give the Middle Class a dollar and they will eat the hearts of unions with a spoon

    Comment by chance — February 7, 2009 @ 10:17 pm | Reply

  99. Most employers require that employees who are given severance pay agree not to sue the employer thereafter. In fact, most companies that offer severance do so to gain the certainty that no lawsuit will follow the termination whether or not the employee has any grounds for a lawsuit. A severance agreement should contain a comprehensive list of the type of claims and lawsuits that the employee is giving up as part of the agreement. This list is typically very comprehensive and contains almost every conceivable claim, except Workers Compensation claims that cannot be waived in a general release. Employees who sign these agreements should understand that their rights to sue in the future are severely curtailed if not eliminated entirely.

    Comment by JESSBSIMPLE — February 8, 2009 @ 1:20 pm | Reply

  100. Does anyone know when this “realignment and reorganization plan” is due to begin? Thanks

    Comment by worried — February 13, 2009 @ 7:51 am | Reply

    • Cisco has been outsourcing since at least 2007. They just laid off (called a “limited restructuring” by Cisco) 750 people at various Cisco locations on Feb. 24.

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 7:17 am | Reply

  101. It’s happening now, in phases. No word yet on who’s affected. Cisco will continue to reduce it’s dependence on outside services during the course of the year. This has been going on since last October. It’s the FTEs that are waiting to see if they are next. Contractors are definitely being phased out gradually throughout the company.

    Comment by anon — February 13, 2009 @ 8:46 am | Reply

  102. “Cisco will continue to reduce it’s dependence on outside services during the course of the year.”

    They have already ruined the IT Intranet with this crap. They let go three people who were instrumental in keeping it useful and have moved the three Blue-badgers who were also involved into other positions.

    Cisco IT is really hosed. Enjoy paying for all the GTRC support cases!

    Comment by Red Badge — February 13, 2009 @ 8:53 am | Reply

  103. Sapient today 13th Feb 2009 layed off 500 employees.. ! It’s removing all the employees who were recruited in last 3months

    Comment by Raghu — February 13, 2009 @ 9:20 pm | Reply

  104. anon, thanks for the info. My husband still has his job, but he thinks he is doomed. Cisco is fucked. They encourage employees to bitch about each other. Unfortunately, my husband isn’t the type to throw other people under the bus.

    Comment by worried — February 17, 2009 @ 8:30 am | Reply

  105. In response to #53.
    The “little” layoffs at Cisco are not business as usual.
    My Green Friend was in the top 25%.
    The regular bottom 5% layoffs were abandoned years ago.
    Anyone is fair game now – regardless of promises to move onto new projects.
    The jobs are going to India. Under the radar layoffs are accelerating at a pace not seen since the dot com bust.

    Comment by Green Friend — February 18, 2009 @ 5:55 am | Reply

  106. If we drive all H1s and L1s out of our country, Silicon Valley will be the next Detroit. Those people who go back will build startups in their own countries. In effect we will be outsourcing innovation itself. Too bad to see the seeds of Detroit being planted in Silicon Valley :-(

    Comment by Intellectual — February 19, 2009 @ 1:26 pm | Reply

  107. #107

    This may shock you, but investors do not care much about your community or mine if it does not add to their bottom line. Cisco does not present it self as an American company, but as an international one and that means it has no cultural identity but a corporate ID

    Comment by Shocker — February 19, 2009 @ 4:32 pm | Reply

  108. @ Anonymous # 106

    Do you have any proof (url, online reference) that immigration rejecting the new/renewal L1/H1 visas?

    Comment by El Toorero — February 20, 2009 @ 2:00 am | Reply

  109. 1800 More just got laid off at Cisco.

    I am in Austin and our entire group just got layed off, Nice package though.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 24, 2009 @ 12:21 pm | Reply

  110. […] Rumor: Cisco Systems to lay off IT contractors [updated daily, discussion thread] […]

    Pingback by Today’s Hot Layoff Topics « — February 24, 2009 @ 1:32 pm | Reply

  111. Friend in San Jose confirmed layoffs are in progress in Austin and San Jose

    Comment by slashdot — February 24, 2009 @ 1:40 pm | Reply

  112. yes… 10% in progress

    Comment by yes — February 24, 2009 @ 1:59 pm | Reply

  113. Guys! Anymore news?! Anyone? San Jose campus?

    Comment by Anonymous — February 24, 2009 @ 3:51 pm | Reply

  114. Hundreds in San Jose, Hundreds in India and Hundreds in Austin.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 24, 2009 @ 4:34 pm | Reply

  115. Yep 2000 today

    Comment by jmc — February 24, 2009 @ 5:12 pm | Reply

  116. 850 were let go today. They came from all over the company, including Boxborough, MA. This is probably the first part of the 1500-2000 that Chambers has already announced would be let go. This is not the 10% that Chambers said *might* be let go if the economy kept tanking. This action was pre-announced during the earnings call. Expect another round soon.

    Comment by anon — February 24, 2009 @ 5:38 pm | Reply

  117. My husband was laid off today who was in the top 10%. He was told it was because of geographical reasons (not in SJ).

    Comment by Anonymous — February 24, 2009 @ 5:46 pm | Reply

  118. “We are not going to consider (layoffs) at this time,” chief executive John Chambers said”
    How sweet!

    Comment by PissedOffWithCisco — February 24, 2009 @ 6:19 pm | Reply

    • John Chambers also stated that a “layoff” is not a “layoff” unless 10% or more of the workforce is terminated. He is calling the current reductions a “limited restructuring”.

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 12:16 pm | Reply

  119. 109:

    What’s in the package?

    Comment by tigger — February 24, 2009 @ 6:59 pm | Reply

  120. Chambers is a disingenuous POS. He’s cut from the same cloth as Carly Fiorina.

    Comment by Red Badge — February 24, 2009 @ 7:10 pm | Reply

  121. 6 months pay

    Comment by Anonymous — February 24, 2009 @ 8:29 pm | Reply

  122. I work for Cisco… It’s insulting to shed that many people and not call it a “layoff”.
    All the managers at Cisco are saying that it is NOT a layoff. Give me a break. At least have the decency to call it what it is. I wish all my former co-workers the best of luck! I have been there and it is a tough time – hang in there.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 24, 2009 @ 8:39 pm | Reply

  123. #120: C’mmn! Fiorina is “Perfect Enough” with Masters degree in medieval history

    Comment by Anonymous — February 24, 2009 @ 9:41 pm | Reply

  124. It’s just the start, expect to see teh 10% in a couple of months.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 4:15 am | Reply

  125. voice mail left today with all cisco employees advising them of 750 layoffs as part of internal restructuring.

    Comment by fire! — February 25, 2009 @ 7:08 am | Reply

  126. […] [Update 02-25-2009] (New) Rumor: “1800 More just got laid off at Cisco”; Layoff in progress at San Jose, CA, Austin, TX […]

    Pingback by Today’s Hot Layoff Topics « — February 25, 2009 @ 7:28 am | Reply

  127. what a crock of crap. show me a real news story that backs this crap up…. the news wire’s would be all over this if cisco was laying off numbers like this

    Comment by bob — February 25, 2009 @ 8:53 am | Reply

    • John McCool, a Senior VP at Cisco, stated in a video blog on an Cisco internal website that 750 people at various Cisco sites were terminated on Feb. 24 (as part of a “limited restructuring” – Cisco only considers at least a 10% reduction in the workforce a layoff – per J. Chambers’ definition).

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 7:22 am | Reply

  128. My boyfriend got laid off yesterday because he has “no family”…He is on an H1B and will have to go back if an opportunity doesn’t rise in the immediate future! I am his family! Chambers is an insensitive deceiver! He should at least have the decency and the guts to show up on the screen and tell exactly what’s going on rather than prolonging the suspense. But you need to have morals and a certain human value and even strength to be able to do that! At the end of the day, I’m happy that at least he’s not part of the shittiest company in Silicon Valley anymore. You would need to be unemployed and really desperate to want to return to Cisco! I work for Cisco myself, but I’m going to proudly quit in the next couple of days! The thought of Cisco makes me sick! And the smell of curry, too! One of you, out there, is going to be happy because it’s going to be me and not you! :-) But I’ll do it with my head up!
    Everyone else thought of better ways to work this out. AMD cut 10% of everyone’s pay and thus everyone got to stay! But the Indian managers (in particular) would not take the few thousands less since they’re taking over anyway! And even Chambers would make less so…ooooppps, an impossibility!

    Comment by Me — February 25, 2009 @ 9:02 am | Reply

  129. there was no voicemail advising staff of layoffs .

    Comment by anon — February 25, 2009 @ 9:44 am | Reply

  130. why dont you marry him and make him a citizen. then he doens’t have to worry about h1-b

    Comment by slashdot — February 25, 2009 @ 10:30 am | Reply

  131. Hmmm…2 of our friends got laid off yesterday as well! One was working remotely, one in the San Jose office. Trust me, we opened a bottle of champagne last night to celebrate we’re Ciscofree! I might sound as if I’m upset! :-) I’m not! Just want people to know what’s going on so they’re so secretive about admitting their failure.

    Comment by Me — February 25, 2009 @ 10:51 am | Reply

  132. I will! :-) But there’s still a 7 months gap in which he will have to be out of the country! What is he going to be in the meantime? :-) A stay-at-home, across-the-ocean, husband-to-be?

    Comment by Me — February 25, 2009 @ 10:56 am | Reply

  133. No VM to Cisco employees today on restructuring or layoffs.

    Comment by anom — February 25, 2009 @ 11:07 am | Reply

  134. I have not heard of layoffs even though they are letting CONTRACTORS go. Let’s face it, any company lets contractors go before regular employees. Most contractors go in to any engagement with their eyes open, they know they are always at risk of their contracts not being renewed.

    Comment by anom — February 25, 2009 @ 12:14 pm | Reply

  135. The voicemail was only sent to affected groups, it was sent by VP’s and/or GM’s, not by Chambers. Of course they laid people off, and Chambers told everyone about it in advance on the last earnings call, if you had two brain cells to rub together when you listened to it.

    Comment by Anon — February 25, 2009 @ 12:14 pm | Reply

  136. 134: On one level you’re absolutely correct. However, blue badge or red badge, a job loss is a job loss. Thew whole contractor thing is just a ruse anyway, so execs can tell shareholders lies about real headcount.

    A layoff is a layoff, the people are losing jobs. How some of you blue-badgers can justify your arrogant attitude is beyond me. I was a red-badger for four years and far more valuable than MANY blue-badgers there, some of whom got their jobs because they were a friend of a manager, or out and out nepotism. Some people just didn’t really DO anything. Some were borderline illiterate.

    The effect on the person let go is no different, except we don’t get severance packages.

    Comment by Red Badge — February 25, 2009 @ 12:23 pm | Reply

  137. Are you kidding, trust management at Cisco? Never.
    The ranking system is all political, highly dependent on whether or not you are popular and how well you get along with I hate to say it, the Indian managers.
    Top 10%, bottom 10%, do they have check and balance? Not likely, the director doesn’t even know your name. HR has decreased to a point where they don’t even conduct exit interviews.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 1:16 pm | Reply

  138. #137: I agree. At Cisco, indian managers are usually giving preference in hiring indian developers. Most of such engineers are ‘red badges’ on H1B visa who are employed via vendors. Cisco pays 100/hour to the vendor, the vendor pays 55/hour to the ‘resource’.

    Comment by PissedOffWithCisco — February 25, 2009 @ 1:33 pm | Reply

  139. Speaking about Cisco managers (Building 24, San Jose), this guy should hit the road:


    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 1:41 pm | Reply

  140. If it is Infosys Onsite contractor get 30-35$ and Infosys keeps the rest and it goes to the company bottomline, which is then paid of as tax free dividends in India to Narayan Murthy/Nilekani and other big Wall St investors. Talk about a legal way to earn tax free dollars. For those who don’t know, dividends are tax free in India.

    Comment by slashdot — February 25, 2009 @ 1:45 pm | Reply

  141. #140: sounds like another Ponzi scheme in IT, huh?

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 1:52 pm | Reply

  142. #141: Ponzi Scheme is a little bit different thing

    Comment by DF — February 25, 2009 @ 2:20 pm | Reply

  143. #138 At Cisco, Indian managers in many cases are showing preference in hiring Indian developers and favoritism in promotions & giving favorable reviews. This is so very obvious. Even the BU HR guy is an Indian. And Cisco doesn’t even show token effort to balance it out.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 2:30 pm | Reply

  144. Rumor internally is that 10% is the minimum that will be let go, if layoffs do happen expect closer to 20%….Scary times on Tasman my friends!!

    Comment by Cisco4Now — February 25, 2009 @ 3:01 pm | Reply

  145. I don’t see a reason to bash Indian managers as a rule. There could be some bad apples, but to blame the whole crop is naive. There are hundreds of American, Indian, Chinese managers in Cisco. 70,000 employees need atleast 5000 managers

    Comment by slashdot — February 25, 2009 @ 3:05 pm | Reply

  146. #145: At Cisco, as long as you know how to leak the right side of your Indian manager ass, you will be fine. Do not forget to email him on a daily basis how great he is as a boss and how stupid are the rest. And forget about that stupid and boring programming crap! At some point he will let you to delegate your engineering work to the others in your team.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 3:20 pm | Reply

  147. lame ass comment with no substance.

    Comment by slashdot — February 25, 2009 @ 4:25 pm | Reply

  148. #146, Isn’t it sad to see this is what’s happening.
    Management is internal focused, political, favoritism/bias, short sighted, ……

    What’s with those acquisitions, Webex & SA? Adding >10K employees. Is Cisco getting anything out of those acquisitions?
    CA moving totally out of SJ to India. What else?

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 5:17 pm | Reply

  149. #143: After 25+ years in the high tech industry, I have seen similar things happened over and over again, except in the early 90’s and before the complaints were more like “white managers promoted only white employees”. So, it does not matter which race we are talking about here, like it or not, we are humans….and humans tend to be partial. Like #145 said, Cisco has 1000s of managers, there are some I wish I could punch the daylight out of them, but there are also good ones whom I wish I could work for. In the latest so-called “Limited Restructuring”, our managers had to stress that this was NOT a layoff, the fact is people, good or bad, are let go en masse. Well, unlike Nortel or some other companies from which my poor friends/ex-coworkers were laid off, at least Cisco’s severance package is pretty decent…..

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 5:20 pm | Reply

  150. #148: I do not feel regret. This company has too much politics and too little real innovative engineering.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 5:32 pm | Reply

  151. any idea about the total count?

    Comment by rss — February 25, 2009 @ 5:38 pm | Reply

  152. 14,000

    Comment by Cisco4Now — February 25, 2009 @ 5:47 pm | Reply

  153. 151, only HR knows for sure. As for us, we just know who is gone in our groups, and/or could roughly estimate who is newly missing by counting abandoned cubicles.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 5:50 pm | Reply

  154. #152: 14K? Yeah, right. Are there any plans to convert the company’s campus at Tasman drive into shopping mall too(Walmart, Fry’s, etc)?

    Comment by DF — February 25, 2009 @ 5:55 pm | Reply

  155. those are global numbers, not all SJC

    Comment by Cisco4Now — February 25, 2009 @ 5:56 pm | Reply

  156. #155: This number (14K) sounds like Ctrl+A+Del layoff to me..

    Comment by DF — February 25, 2009 @ 6:06 pm | Reply

  157. – #155, 14K let go? where did you get this? The number doesn’t make sense, that’s over 20%. Do you know how many in SJ?

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 6:12 pm | Reply

  158. #157, there are no California WARN reports filed for Cisco Systems either.

    Comment by DF — February 25, 2009 @ 6:17 pm | Reply


    Comment by Anon — February 25, 2009 @ 6:24 pm | Reply

  160. #159, so Cisco has a layoff. And they are not immune to the recession.
    Tell me if the layoff also includes useless VP & directors.
    And I hope my ex-boss is one of them. Ok, like #149 said, “we are humans….and humans tend to be partial” and I might add, they tend to be sorrow grapes”.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 6:50 pm | Reply

  161. 14k is about correct. Give or take a few hundred. As far as how many in SJ? I would guess it would be close to the numbers from the last big cut. I wonder what building they will herd them into this time.

    Comment by Cisco4Now — February 25, 2009 @ 7:07 pm | Reply

  162. #161, 14K? that’s 20%, what about those new 3x buildings on McCarthy? Cisco has cash in the bank and cash for new buildings and new logo, but not for the folks. How about pay cut for VP’s and directors first before such a layoff?

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 7:31 pm | Reply

    • 162: I’ll be very surprised if Cisco actually fills (or even continues to lease) those buildings in Milpitas, though I suppose if Chambers wanted to help out the “Cisco family,” he could simply use those buildings as housing for a few of the American workers he’s laid off (and their families) so they don’t have to live in a fucking TENT CITY!

      Whoever said Chambers should be shot is correct.

      Comment by NYFB — March 17, 2009 @ 4:23 pm | Reply

  163. Not sure about VPs but redundant directors will be going.

    Comment by Cisco4Now — February 25, 2009 @ 7:35 pm | Reply

  164. In Austin 43 people were laid off on 2/24/2009. 2 of them were in my group and there was no voice mail given. This is all part of the 1500 – 2000 layoff mentioned in the FY Q2 earnings call. People in India were laid off as well due to all of CS-MARS development being pulled back to SJ. I believe CDO lost 750 (maybe 650) people.

    “The Package” consists of 6 months salary (plus unused PTO, as I understand). The first 2 months can be used to find an open position within Cisco. Most won’t find any positions.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 25, 2009 @ 7:37 pm | Reply

  165. #149, yes, when my ex-jerk-Cisco-manager wrote “you should not refer to notes when you speak”, and “you should not look at your computer screen when you speak”. I know it’s time to leave. I was not talking to customers and not in the entertaining business. What kind of management allows this type of review?

    Like #149 said “I wish I could punch the daylight out of them”. Of the 7 Cisco managers I had when I was there I can say only 2 were good.

    Comment by Cisconot4now — February 25, 2009 @ 8:37 pm | Reply

  166. how about to start posting here links to your pages at LinkedIn? I bet, even with this crappy job market, there are companies who are still hiring.

    Comment by AnonCisco — February 25, 2009 @ 10:52 pm | Reply

  167. any news in india?? about the compensation package??

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 8:42 am | Reply

  168. I know there is some kind of corruption going on in Cisco. Last year, when I attended the interview through a consultant, I did not get through..
    But, after a couple of days, the consultant called me and told me that I’ll get the job if I’m ready to work for a (much) lesser pay.. The cisco manager is OK to take me if I work for less!!!!!! Looked like he had some monetary benefit from the Consultant.
    This sounded bad to me.. and I didnt take the offer.. By his name and accent, I can say that the manager was a Indian manager.
    And I lost the trust in Cisco..
    Hope all these shady managers will be out on the roads now..

    Comment by NoPolitics — February 26, 2009 @ 9:44 am | Reply

  169. Anyone that works in high tech should know or is aware of the fact that it is a cyclical and volatile industry where layoffs and firings is very common. Employers know that few of their hires will be around to collect retirement. Any temp, contractor (and that means any one foreign worker) knows that they like full time labor serve at the pleasure of the employer and the employer is under no obligation to pay them any thing beyond allowed by law or contract.

    Comment by Travis — February 26, 2009 @ 10:23 am | Reply

  170. Indo Asian workers are the new White people, but they are better because they will do it cheaper and not rock the boat – that’s why WHite CEO’s love them more than White people unless they need White to talk to other White people as in sales and finance.

    Comment by Travis — February 26, 2009 @ 10:28 am | Reply

  171. NoPolitics,

    If you have the deatils of the interviewer and the contacting agancy. You can call up immigration dept. I.C.E and lat them know, and they will take action. Provide them with the location. Use option 6 when you call and it goes the agent.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 11:49 am | Reply

  172. Guys,

    Don’t get scared to call up I.C.E if you have the names of the managers who are in to illegal activities of hiring foreigners and getting rid of US citizens.

    Please call now and provide all the details.

    You don’t have to provide them your deatils.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 11:52 am | Reply

  173. Guys,

    Understand that I.C.E cannot raid each and every company for fraud. Its more easy for them to work on tips that they get.

    They will start investigating and once the company is under investigation they will stop all these illegal activities.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 11:55 am | Reply

  174. Its not just the employer who is breaking the law, employees are supporting them too. As far as L1 visa immigration interview goes, they know from the forum what questions they are asked and they know what to answer even if it is not the right answer.

    For L1 visa they have to say they are working on a proprietary tool and have specialized skills to get the visa even if they don’t have those skills.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 11:57 am | Reply

  175. If anybody has the names and location of L1 visa holders from any sub-contactor working at the cilent site, please provide this to I.C.E asap.

    Those who think that they have the job, remember, you will be the next.

    So act now, don’t waste your time, make the call now.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 11:59 am | Reply

  176. The only way you can save you job is by getting rid of the sub-contactor that are working based on visa that they have obtained beased on providing in-correct information.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 12:01 pm | Reply

  177. Some of the managers still working and who are in the process of getting Green Card, should be investigated.

    Most of the time the title and the position on the Green Card Application does not match with the actual work they do. This is fraud.

    Please contact I.C.E with all the names of the Managers, location etc. I.C.E can cancel the Green Card along with the H1B visa and make sure they do not get into this country ever again.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 12:05 pm | Reply

  178. Also EEOC for discrimination.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 12:25 pm | Reply

  179. Where is this topic going… I think the main aim of this topic is about layoff’s… Layoff is layoff whether the reason is Indian manager or foreign manager etc…. Just let us know what’s happening in your BU’s…
    There is no one to blame in this economy… and am sure managers are not involved in chosing people.. the list is from HR…

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 5:14 pm | Reply

  180. well , if 750-850 are cutdown , where is the other 1150 going to come from . Newspaper reports say 250 in milipitas( does that mean san jose office too).

    Comment by rss — February 26, 2009 @ 5:50 pm | Reply

  181. LOL, companies like Cisco have lawyers on retainers just to find loop holes in EEOC laws and in the hiring of foreign workers. The same companies that hired you are the same that grease the wheel to out source your job. They rig the system because they hire presidents, judges and congressmen and women See:

    Lawyers in a how-to video: as in how to avoid hiring an American:

    Comment by Travis — February 26, 2009 @ 6:20 pm | Reply

  182. a company the size of Cisco always have disgruntled employees, under performers, slackers and people who believe they are better than they really are. Reading so many posts today it’s obvious that its the reason for so much anger. The bottom line Cisco is positioning itself to ride the downturn by tightening its spending, slowing down some programs and as few layoffs as possible. 6 mos pay is generous.

    Comment by Me — February 26, 2009 @ 7:04 pm | Reply

  183. Travis,

    The same lawyers in how-to video are now under investigation. During this investigation what they found out was, that they are representing big firms. This has now led to the scrutiny of all the H1 and PERM process of big firms. Immigration dept is either going to review each and every H1 and PERM application and will decide accordingly or they may VOID all the applications. Lets see what happens, but this is a bad news to all the big corporation.

    So my friends if you call up I.C.E and give the names and titles and location of all those managers / directors etc who are in the PERM process, they can be history within few weeks or months.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 7:11 pm | Reply

  184. Everybody,

    What do you make up from the news below.

    It simply means Obama wants to crack down on illegal immigration.

    Why do we think ICE gets more money? Its to raid more and more corporations.

    So everybody, listen up now, this is not the time to say “Its not my business, God will punish them anyways etc, etc”. God is not going to come to your help if you don’t help your self. So please pick up the phone and start calling I.C.E. Don’t be a scary cat, its time for action.

    According to a report on Federal Computer Week’s website…

    ICE would get $1.4 billion for the agency’s efforts to identify and deport illegal aliens who have committed crimes
    $368 million for existing border patrol agents at the Customs and Border Protection agency
    $110 million to continue expanding the E-Verify system

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 8:07 pm | Reply

  185. they won’t report to IEC because there is nothing to report

    Comment by Me — February 26, 2009 @ 8:16 pm | Reply

  186. Me,

    Sounds like your either you are on H1, L1 or your green card is getting processed.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 26, 2009 @ 9:23 pm | Reply

  187. Anonymous:

    You think that simply calling ICE you or any one can arrest layoffs, outsourcing, and job promotions? This is a legal business deal, Anonymous. Most of the unemployed are busy trying to find a job in the same industry and when they fail at that they might try teaching or something else. They will take their unemployment check and jump right back into the same cycle again and I bet in a few years they will be hitting the bricks again. If hired they will call ICE alright – ice for their cola drink to go along with pizza what ever they eat after working 55 hours a week. Cisco, HP, IBM will lobby Sacramento and DC for more good foreign workers and Americans will shop at Walmart for every day low prices at low wages 4 workers.

    Comment by JESSBSIMPLE — February 27, 2009 @ 12:58 am | Reply

  188. Cops from ICE are now on a permanent strike protesting against layoffs and not paid overtimes :)

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 2:36 am | Reply

  189. recently joined in cisco as a Manager, and after reading comments ….I understood the present environmnet to some extent and learned some dos and donts. But I dont understand one thing every where ..what ever the company may be…there are worst managers….but it doesnt mean every one are the same. and its not correct to blaim Cisco for this

    Comment by k — February 27, 2009 @ 7:01 am | Reply


    Sounds more like you are doing something that is not legal and you seems to be more scared.

    Well, if you have nothing to worry, keep your mounth shut

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 8:12 am | Reply

  191. Comment by JESSBSIMPLE — February 27, 2009 @ 12:58 am

    By the way, where are you located (timing is 12:58 am)

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 8:14 am | Reply

  192. 188 – Your response is incredible. Im neither H1, L1 Green Card. Im 100% American born and raised. The layoffs are across the board not specific to a certain group, department or location. Additional headcount has been frozen for a few quarters so in light of the current state of the global economy, programs and departments that are either dying or delayed are redeploying headcount to areas that are more profitable and still need help. Obviously not everyone can be deployed so layoffs are the only option. Not all layoffs are temp badges either. Trust me there is plenty of fat that can be trimmed, perks are being scaled back to help with the bottom line. The company is doing the right thing and offering very generous packages to those impacted. Its hard all the way around all over the place and from what is being reported the bottom is yet to be seen. All these disgruntled employees and people posting negative comments need not make it a H1, K1, visa issue. That has zero to do with it. Plus to make a point, employee breakdown is very disverse. Its crazy to say that majority of managers or employees are Indian background. Cisco is world leader and one of the top companies in the world to work for and it must maintain and prepare for the upturn when it does happen.

    Comment by Me — February 27, 2009 @ 8:27 am | Reply

  193. Managers will lie and lie and lie, while trying to figure out a way to send more jobs to India.

    They are traitors to the nation.

    Comment by Red Badge — February 27, 2009 @ 8:34 am | Reply

  194. Me,

    Again, you seems to be very protective about H1 and L1 visa holders.

    I don’t trust you and you don’t sound American to me.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 8:35 am | Reply

  195. Red Badge,

    I agree with you 100% and Me sound to me like one of them.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 8:36 am | Reply

  196. The broken English gives them away every time.

    Comment by Red Badge — February 27, 2009 @ 8:39 am | Reply

  197. If we can only make TOFEL mandatory to all of them, 50% will fail the test and will have to go back home.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 8:43 am | Reply

  198. In response to # 191: All I have to say is: HAHAHAHAHAHA!
    This is hilarious! This is the perfect example of a Cisco manager:
    “joined in Cisco”
    “every where”
    “what ever”
    “every one are”
    “to blaim”
    :-) Maybe mangers at other companies are not correct either, but hopefully they can spell better than you do! My question is: how do you even send messages to your team? If you have these many mistakes in 2 1/2 lines, do they need to be engineers with an English/Language Degree in order to figure out the tasks they are being assigned? Ridiculous!

    Comment by Moo — February 27, 2009 @ 9:10 am | Reply

  199. Folks who are complaining about Indian, H1, Indian managers – while there is no doubt that there are lot of them, most of these decisions to lay off people are being taken at a much high level where it is mostly non-Indians or H1s. Case in point being the product that I used to work on was done away (outsourced) to an Indian contractor. What blew me off being an American myself, that the VP who took the decision told us openly that it took him and his close people (all white Americans) 2 years to arrive at the decision and they solicited the Indian companies to bid for the work.

    To me it is just greed at the top corporate level where they clearly do not give a crap about good people or products. Over the years in Cisco I have noticed a huge cultural shift esp among the very senior leadership including Chambers, where it is come to a point that they only care about their own wealth and will do anything to increase it. Chambers and his gang is no different from all of the greedy wall st CEOs and bankers.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 9:21 am | Reply

  200. @199,
    No wonder Asians arrg indian kids have been doing really well in spelling bee contests in the US Of A.Thats a shame

    Comment by JackBauer — February 27, 2009 @ 9:39 am | Reply

  201. You morons are a bunch of retards. Blaming the country’s woes on H-1B is downright stupid. Blame the lawmakers for the mess which America is in. Stop whining about people who are trying to make a living.
    Organize, complain to ICE and if everything fails do flip burgers, you bunch of sissies.

    Comment by retards — February 27, 2009 @ 9:43 am | Reply

  202. anymore news from cisco layoff ?

    Comment by bo-chap-liao — February 27, 2009 @ 9:46 am | Reply

  203. Are things settled now or more coming?

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 10:03 am | Reply

  204. To 200,
    Don’t laugh too much… Indians and Chinese can learn several languages, cultures and technologies… They are here to help themselves and also helping US software Industry all these years… Whoever think they are Americans, they should know that this land doesn’t belong to them either… Everyone knows about the history how these whites occupied this land … So everyone of us are humans first then Indians, Americans, chinese later…
    One question to my fellow so called American’s… Can you figure out one sigle Indian or Chinese language in your whole life time….????? ???? lol
    You guys can’t understand basic maths and now trying to find mistakes in others…. silly

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 10:24 am | Reply

  205. 202, I am not talking of Amarican Indian, I am taking about Indians and Chinese etc.

    American Indian kids go to American School.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 10:26 am | Reply

  206. # 203. Comment by retards — February 27, 2009 @ 9:43 am

    Did you just acknowledged that you are a Retard.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 10:31 am | Reply

  207. all, be nice, any word on any more layoffs?

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 10:35 am | Reply

  208. 202,
    So American kids dont go to American school just Indian and chinese kids?.
    Anyways instead of solving a problem you are blaming a section of people by ethnic descent.H1B fraud needs to go i agree with that.These body shops are making Americans jobless and should be shutdown.

    Comment by JackBauer — February 27, 2009 @ 11:18 am | Reply

  209. 202=207

    Comment by JackBauer — February 27, 2009 @ 11:19 am | Reply

  210. It’s completely obvious that there are projects being sent over to India. This is really the way it is now. We are on the cusp of global change, not just at Cisco, but throughout the Silicon Valley. Soon, this will be like another dustbowl environment. Lots of buildings and nobody in them. The difference between now and maybe 10 years ago, when we had the last layoff, is that back then it was primarily the manufacturing that went over to the other countries. We didn’t care so much, it was not important to while collar culture. We were the ones with ideas and we were “educated” and it couldn’t happen to us. Well, ten year later, we are sitting in the same position as the hardhats were way back when. Our jobs are being radically downsized, the pool of available jobs here is decreasing, and our entire standard of living is being decimated by the new world order. We are, my friends, in the global grinder and there really will be no protection for us. The companies will continue to offshore and such until they suppress the American entrepeneurial spirit enough to make us all accept sub-standard wages and protections. We are well on our way to a European, 60% taxed, democratic-socialism. It won’t be so bad when we are there, but the journey will be a bitch.

    Comment by Martha S. — February 27, 2009 @ 11:22 am | Reply

  211. Our zip code 95014 (Cupertino) has the best schools

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 11:27 am | Reply

  212. 203: Spoken like an entitlement-minded blue badger. Hope you make the list!

    The fact is, managers, executives and shareholders all need to realize that the glory days are over, and for a while, there will be no profits. The status quo cannot continue because so many people are losing jobs, no one is buying anything but necessities. The pols talk about “getting credit moving again,” but they’re putting the cart before the horse. If credit is available, do you think anyone without a job is going to go out an buy anything? Credit only works when people work. American companies, and Cisco is an egregious offender, in partnership with politicos of every stripe, have taken Reaganomics to its logical conclusion, which is a death spiral for the United States.

    If people are not working, they won’t buy. I know I think about every dime I spend if if it’s not a necessity, I don’t buy it. Multiply that by the number of people losing their jobs and you have a depression that will make the 1930s look like good times. Offshoring jobs and bringing in cheap labor is utterly short-sighted. Would you think about buying a new router, computer, or anything else if you didn’t have a job? Didn’t think so.

    American companies and executives like John Chambers, Steve Ballmer and Carly Fiorina have helped to ruin America. Those of you still working, it’s only a matter of time until you’re not. The US is doomed. Might as well get used to that idea.

    Comment by Red Badge — February 27, 2009 @ 11:32 am | Reply

  213. I did use the handle to signify the nature of the beast. 95014 is another retarded area with retarded indians and chinese propping up house prices under the guise of good schools. here the white folks who are exiting the area are the smart ones, leaving the lemons to the soon to the unemployed Asians. Morons are everywhere, it doensn’t matter if they are Chinese, Indians or Americans.

    Comment by retards — February 27, 2009 @ 11:49 am | Reply

  214. British Workers Protest the use of Foreign Workers
    Monday, February 2, 2009, 10:26 AM

    While Great Britain is feeling the same financial hardships being felt here in the United States, several hundred nuclear processing plant workers walked out on Monday to protest the importation of foreign workers. Around 900 workers at the Sellafield nuclear plant in Cumbria, England joined hundreds of other contract workers protesting against what they claim to be preferential treatment given to foreign workers.

    The action reflects the uneasy mood in Great Britain with about 2 million out of work and the unemployment rate at more than six percent. The organizers of the walkout said it was not an anti-foreign sentiment but an attempt to level the playing field for all workers.

    Union organizer Bill Eilbeck was quoted as saying in the Reuters article: “We are not trying to stop foreign labor coming to Britain, we are trying to stop them coming in and being paid less than we are and under-cutting us. We are really asking for equal rights, not just for us but for the foreign workers as well. If the government does not listen to us the situation could escalate even further and you will be seeing more strikes, which we do not want to happen.”

    Three other power plants had similar walkouts.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 12:11 pm | Reply

  215. This is a moot issue. Obama will be eliminating H1’s and all foreign workers soon, as he had promised in his campaign; especially now that the economy is shedding 600,000+ jobs per week.

    Comment by Billy Ray Valentine — February 27, 2009 @ 12:14 pm | Reply

  216. Obama to eliminate tax benefits for cos outsourcing jobs
    Washington: US President Barack Obama has vowed to eliminate tax benefits for American companies shipping jobs to foreign countries but did not reveal its blueprint in his maiden budget speech.

    In a slew of measures aimed at boosting the nation’s economy, the government would do away with tax breaks for firms outsourcing jobs to overseas destinations including India. At the same time, the administration would be providing tax relief to 95 per cent of American working families.

    “The budget also begins to restore a basic sense of fairness to the tax code, eliminating incentives for companies that ship jobs overseas and giving a generous package of tax cuts to 95 per cent of working families,” Obama said in his speech on Thursday.

    Nearly 1,000 US firms, which have shipped their jobs overseas are anticipated to be affected with the proposed elimination of tax incentives. The plan mainly refers to one of the provisions in the tax code that allows companies to pay lesser taxes for profits earned from foreign shores.

    However, the US is yet to outline the ways to abolish tax breaks for the entities outsourcing jobs.

    Majority of the Democrats are against the provision, saying the same was encouraging firms to move jobs overseas and even cut the local positions.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 12:16 pm | Reply

  217. @214..
    Your reasoning is sound, but not accurate. Even if unemployment goes to 25 percent, as it did in the depths of the great depression, that still leaves 75 percent of the population employed and credit worthy.

    Comment by Billy Ray Valentine — February 27, 2009 @ 12:18 pm | Reply

  218. @214..
    Your reasoning is sound, but not accurate. Even if unemployment goes to 25 percent, as it did in the depths of the great depression, that still leaves 75 percent of the population employed and credit worthy.

    actually the TRUE number is more than double the posted government numbers

    Comment by OHBOY — February 27, 2009 @ 12:21 pm | Reply

  219. Many of them in this blog (mostly managers) are so very innocent and we should really not balm them, it the body shopping firm who are to be blamed, really?

    Manager know that it is not mandatory to do a background check on contacting employees. Because of which they can get whomever they what and from wherever they want and get some undercut.

    If they have to do a background check on all the candidates 80 % will have to be thrown out.

    You should see, 80% of the times these contactors are on chat to get help from their friends or trying to get help from the net.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 12:26 pm | Reply

  220. Billy Ray Valentine,

    Its I.C.E that is cracking down on all these body shoppers and they work mainly on tips. They cannot go on raiding each and every one.

    They need help from us.

    Remember, most of the application filed for Green Card are now under scrutiny, because of fake ads and interview conducted to eliminate Citizen.

    Most of these Managers who have filed their green cards have different title, R & R on the application, which the immigration dept is not aware of.

    If you tip I. C.E they will start investigating, if the find one fraud, the entire corporation comes under investigation.

    Remember, the interview of the candidate is recorded during the immigration process when they go for H1B stamping. If they find differences, they are in trouble.

    Not just manager even Architects etc are in the same boat.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 12:35 pm | Reply

  221. yes, more to come… mostly in non-US locations

    Comment by another anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 12:40 pm | Reply

  222. I read through the thread and wondered what the devil was up with all the whinging, moaning and bitching going on. Contractors know they are always the first to go when there is a downturn so live with it, H1 or overseas help who are now being let go – its a shame, but hey, that’s life and no one owes us anything, regular employees – Its horrible to lose your job but hey, it happens. And when the good times were rolling you were still bitching.
    The one absolute in life is this:- no-one owes you anything, you contribute where you can, you receive a paycheck. If this then ends there is nothing you can do.
    We ALL KNOW how the economy is, grow up and stop wailing about ‘stand up and say its layoff’s or not’!. Even if John Chambers was to climb on a kitchen chair and bellow it out it would make no difference. The economy is bad, the world is in the toilet and horrible things have to happen.

    Comment by Bemused — February 27, 2009 @ 3:25 pm | Reply

  223. California Man Arrested in H-1B Visa Scheme

    Comment by Anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 3:27 pm | Reply

  224. Some permanent staff must be pretty nervous now and perhaps they’ll have to lift their game now that the contractors are being culled.

    They parasite off the red tags, don’t not know how some of them got their jobs – they lack knowledge! One of their favorite tricks is to “work from home”. Funny though, don’t see any results for those days! Some only go into the office once every couple of months, their managers are overseas so there’s limited supervision.

    Its about time Cisco cleaned up its act and check who amongst them are the real performers.

    Comment by anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 4:08 pm | Reply

  225. #226: please submit your news to appropriate threads. Thanks

    Comment by DF — February 27, 2009 @ 4:58 pm | Reply

  226. Saying Cisco is diverse is funny. The SJ campus is at least 50% Indian. Some buildings seems more like 90%. Can’t wait for the day Americans can have some of these jobs…

    Comment by Anon — February 27, 2009 @ 5:39 pm | Reply

  227. #229, yes, agree, bldg 15 is one of those buildings. Most of the non-Indians left and replaced with Indians. Also some projects have been farmed out to Cisco India or one of the software shops there.

    Comment by anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 6:33 pm | Reply

  228. I think most Americans are getting the economic, political and economic system they voted for either by ballot or by spending.

    Comment by JESSBSIMPLE — February 27, 2009 @ 8:14 pm | Reply

  229. No hate for Indian people, I would say the same thing if they were any other race BUT….I hope all non US residents are axed.

    Comment by TimeToGO — February 27, 2009 @ 8:45 pm | Reply

  230. 230,
    I know of a pakistani guy just hired in an adj group as a contractor .He is still working there and was not affected.I know of a lot of indians who lost their jobs in this round .But i guess everyone just wants to see the indians leave huh

    Comment by Jackbauer — February 27, 2009 @ 9:21 pm | Reply

  231. 233, no, not at all, just more balance in hiring, and promotion. Right now there are BU’s with GM, VP, directors, managers, engineers, even the HR guy are Indians. And they have Cisco India development/testing plus software shops in India.

    Things are so obvious it is not bordering on illegal.

    Comment by anonymous — February 27, 2009 @ 9:53 pm | Reply

  232. The whole thing of Non resident Americans must be laid off is not logical. Its as stupid as asking Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan, Tony parker, Ginobili to leave the NBA because they are taking away the american athletes jobs!!

    Comment by manish — February 28, 2009 @ 2:06 am | Reply

    • When the price of rice soared the Indian government thought it best to stop exporting most types of rice, except the most expensive. If Indian rice for Indians first then why not America for Americans first? It is grim situation that we find ourselves in. Do you all see how quickly it has broken down to a fight for Country and now Race?!

      Comment by Middle East — March 1, 2009 @ 10:57 pm | Reply

  233. Ah! This board is full of wonderful examples of pure unadulterated racist thinking. I guess when their livelihoods are in question people revert to their baser insticts quite effortlessly.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 28, 2009 @ 7:37 am | Reply

  234. Manish, would this fly in any other country besides the US? In India if a large company employed mostly imported non Indian citizens are you saying that those Indians working for that company would be fine with that?? I would doubt it. They would feel the same way we do.

    Comment by TimeToGO — February 28, 2009 @ 8:14 am | Reply

  235. Re 235:

    If mildly educated middle-class white guys’ jobs were being threatened by the players you mentioned, there would have been a similar hue and cry. When “lazy, inefficient, greedy, under-educated (not necesaarily white)” workers were getting hit by all the manufacturing job loss, there was no similar posturing. See, then the corporations had every right to explore their efficiencies, the sharholder was the king, the world was flat, the unions were bloodsucking monsters and the poor slobs had to get out of denial mode and go to community college to acquire new skills or learn to live on minimum wage. But now, it is John “Barely Average” Smith, the programmer (who drank hard through four years of college) whose job is threatened. So, of course something needs to be done.. Better yet, let it be done to all these brown idiots with funny accents and improper knowledge of grammar, so that a just society is reestablished.

    Some -ism or the other that helps people convince themselves that they are way better than people who don’t fit into their mould is fundamental to human thought process. There’s really no surprise that when people’s livelihoods are threatened they will find someone/something to blame however flimsy their reasoning might be. The more ‘foreign’ the thing to blame the easier it is to do so.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 28, 2009 @ 8:22 am | Reply

  236. If Indians weren’t really capable as some of you have alluded to, then why would CEO Chambers hire so many Indians? Why would he be more than enthusiastic to outsource to Cisco Bangalore?

    Why did Americans choose a President who is is a Black? It doesn’t matter whether you are Black or White, Indian or American, all it matters is whether you are capable to do the job or not. It’s the process of natural selection and the survival of the fittest.

    Comment by Thnker — February 28, 2009 @ 9:02 am | Reply

    • My entire group is being outsourced to India. Most of the people in the group have been in the same job for close to 10 years, with no complaints about their work or the products they develop. We were told the reason we were being outsourced to India was to save money. That is the reason in its entirety as to why Cisco/Chambers is so eager to outsource to India.

      I really think you don’t know what your talking about.

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 11:30 am | Reply

  237. #239: in case of Cisco CEO, the answer is simple: greed. Mr. Chambers has lost his ground and missed the point where ‘enough is enough’.

    As for our current president, people were not voting for mr. Obama as he is black; they were voting against that clinical idiot – Bush & Co. who almost took this country down to tubes

    Comment by Anonymous — February 28, 2009 @ 9:12 am | Reply

  238. I saw a resume of some ‘Kumar K., H1B visa holder, India’ who claimed he programs J2EE since 1996.

    (The J2EE 1.2 SDK was released in December 1999.)

    Comment by Anonymous — February 28, 2009 @ 9:27 am | Reply

  239. #225 well said. All of these H1, Lguys crying foul because of the layoff need to ask themselves why it happened to them. Perhaps they were slackers, on a weak project or pissed some managers off. Those who claim 50% of the employees are Indian are crazy and not true. Also the fact is there are projects going on in India but there are projects that were pulled back fr India to the US as well. The current state of affairs is happening all over the world, layoffs, plant closings etc. If Chambers was doing such a horrible job the company would not have almost 30B in the bank and counting. I do agree that the US is losing its edge on innovation but we have to look at the US school system being piss poor.

    Comment by Me — February 28, 2009 @ 10:54 am | Reply

  240. 241: HAHAHAHAHAHA!

    In my time at Cisco, I heard more about things being screwed up in India than anything they did well. I even worked with a US-educated Indian guy who said the IIT programmers are good little robots, they were good at doing what they’re told, but were in no way innovative. They sure screwed up everything they ever touched for our team AND, as if that weren’t enough, they wasted cycles developing a tool for creating CEC sites that weren’t up to standards, even though they were well aware of the standards for coding CEC pages.

    Lame beyond reason. Of course, their communication skills were beyond hope.

    240: Obama probably can’t save the US from going down the tubes. It’s the fall of the Roman Empire all over again, the Visigoths are on the horizon. Chambers was a BIG Bush supporter so the greed thing was automatic from the start with him.

    Comment by Red Badge — February 28, 2009 @ 10:59 am | Reply

  241. #243 See the video or the books by Kevin Phillips, Morris Berman, Chalmers Johnson. They are among the major thinkers that agree that we are in the Decline of the American Empire and there is not much Obama or any one personcan do about it because we are past the tipping point.

    Comment by JESSBSIMPLE — February 28, 2009 @ 4:31 pm | Reply

  242. 243,
    Well you seem to be boasting about your prog skills a lot here .Why dont you start your own software company and hire only US citizens .Well for your IQ you should be able to crack the IIT entrance exams pretty easily .Why dont you try cracking the IIT entrance exam and then come here to boast about your skills.
    There are bad apples everywhere.Dont become one.

    Comment by Jackbauer — February 28, 2009 @ 4:33 pm | Reply

  243. 243: Can’t say that all IIT programmers are great, but surely your US-educated Indian guy for sure is a dolt, for generalizing an entire set of (generally smart) people that way.

    Btw, not sure how innovative that guy is and you are, but I know quite a few people educated in India who have been at the forefront of some really successful products from Cisco. If one looks at the product teams that bring in the big money for the company, it will be clear that the “lame beyond reason” people play very significant roles in every single one of them. I know it burns the heart of bigots to acknowledge facts like that, but unfortunately, facts have a well known anti-racist bias.

    The fact that you didn’t hear good things about work done in India need not be a reflection of the truth… It is just as likely that your world is made up bitter people who are tired of accepting that they are way over-rated and over matched by eager workers from a third world country.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 28, 2009 @ 4:33 pm | Reply

  244. Hi,

    My company is a troubled financial services firm. They applied for PERM in August 2007. THe case was audited and two weeks ago my company received notice on supervised recruitment. They are telling me that the original job description on this EB2 application is generic. if they redo the recruitment under supervision, they will not be able to get approval.Therefore they will withdraw the case.

    This is my 7th year on H1B, (i had an extension due to pending labor before), and my visa is expiring in January 2010.

    1. Is the best course of action withdrawing the PERM, or is there a way to save my priority date?

    2. When I joined the company several years back, I had them put in the contact that they will apply for greencard. Can I remind them this fact and have them reapply? Or in this economy, is this mute?

    3. What can I do, if they withdraw the case? What are my options?

    4. In the case they withdraw application, and my visa expires, what is their obligation to me? Can they pay for moving expenses? Plane tickets? Severance pay? Please advise.

    Note that my company is doing spot layoffs in the meantime.

    Thanks so much for your help.

    Comment by needurgenthelp2 — February 28, 2009 @ 6:10 pm | Reply

    • Reply for 247 Comment by needurgenthelp2 — February 28, 2009 @ 6:10 pm

      In this economy, it is not advisable for you to struggle. It is better to stay out of US for one year and then come back. Best of luck.

      Comment by Someone — February 28, 2009 @ 8:43 pm | Reply

  245. Most exworkers are in post Stockholm traumatic syndrome. While they worked at Cisco they used all of the neurotic defenses to cope with their jobs. Sure they saw how Cisco treated them or other workers. They saw the overt and covert racism. The pay structures. The promises given and failed. The speeches and reports from on high. In the end they were company men and women. They were proud employees.

    They are now in the early stages of mourining and grief. They are in shock, denial, anger regreat and bitterness. Unless they were deaf dumb and blind they all knew the layoff/firing was coming they just did not believe they were IT being thrown under the bus

    Comment by JESSBSIMPLE — February 28, 2009 @ 9:39 pm | Reply

  246. What is funny about cisco is, it is ruled by indians… some groups have 5 layer of managers
    all the way to john chambers.. most the managers are indians and only promote with in each other.. it is indian mafia which rules cisco.. it is a freaking joke.

    Comment by cisco-empolyee — February 28, 2009 @ 9:46 pm | Reply

  247. Once you get past the emotion … here is how Cisco is different than most other big and small high-tech companies

    – They did clearly communicate the restructuring of 1500-2000 FTEs in the conference call.
    – They followed it up with video blogs informing all employees when the restructuing did happen.
    – They provide 2 months (60 days) to find a job. I conjecture that the number of jobs available internally is smaller than the number of people affected by the restructuring. This is clearly a move to help keep the better employees while weeding off the weaker ones. It is hard to blame a company for doing this.
    – They provide 4 more months of pay for those who have to leave.

    Now about the diversity of Cisco and layoffs/restructuring. It is hard to know unless one has concrete data. If x% are Indians and Chinese… I would guess almost x% of affected employees are also Indians and Chinese.

    Yes, jobs are moving offshore. And in downturns this trend accelerates. So what do we do? I don’t have an answer… but I’m not sure how I can justify singling out Cisco and blaming it.

    Comment by anon — March 1, 2009 @ 12:21 am | Reply

    • What Cisco has NOT done is to be honest about the amount of outsourcing of US jobs to India and China that has/is taking place. They have been very secretive about the whole thing. When asked about outsourcing by various media representatives, Cisco falls back on the line that restructuring around Cisco’s five priorities is continually taking place and refuse to give any more details about outsourcing.

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 12:42 pm | Reply

  248. I read this message board with great interest as I am an Ex-Cisco employee (San Jose SW DEV)
    Disclaimer – I was not affected by layoff; quit cisco San Jose job in march last year.

    I must say, the Bash-India/ans fest going on everywhere is quite amusing. “Bad Programmers”, “Liars and cheaters”, “pathecic communication skills”, “aweful smell”, “code monkeys”, “slumdogs” are just some of the things I’ve seen used on this and other forums so far. What’s sad is that it is evident that some of my former colleagues harbored racist feelings all along that are just coming out now. As an Indian, I would always wonder if these guys don’t really like me deep in their heart even if they are being really nice to me. I always wondered if this is just a facade and this nagging feeling made me pack up and leave for India after spending 10 years in America. It’s just darn sad to see that may be – just may be I was absolutely right all along.
    cheers and Peace!

    Comment by bye_bye_08 — March 1, 2009 @ 7:36 am | Reply

  249. 12 million years ago, as a gorilla, I also used the feel the same was as most of you folks in this thread. I was seeing more and more humans replacing gorilla workers, majority of workers and managers were humans, gorillas used to get laid off. After a couple hundred years, humans entirely overtook gorillas due to their superior genetic makeup.

    To all the gorillas on this thread, I suggest you to just accept that humans are a superior race and go on with your lives. There is no point in complaining!

    Comment by Gorilla — March 1, 2009 @ 8:22 am | Reply

  250. bye_bye_08:

    This anti-indian/racist stuff is really bad, not amusing at all. Didn’t similar crap happen in post WW-I Germany because of a very bad economy?

    Cisco was very fair and the severance is, by far, the best in the industry. Most impacted are Indians since the majority of Cisco engineers are Indians. What’s the % of American engineers in SV anyway? 5%?

    The very small percentage of “whites”, myself included, are liked and being treated extremely well. I doubt it would be true the other way around.

    Comment by CiscoTek — March 1, 2009 @ 9:13 am | Reply

  251. One intern in my team claims he has a 3.8 GPA, but he is as dumb as my Chihuahua. He is Indian and now I have to question his credibility after reading this blog.

    Comment by G — March 1, 2009 @ 10:06 am | Reply

  252. Getting high grades has little to do with creativity. I developed a compiler in high school but I never had a 3.8 GPA.

    Comment by CiscoTek — March 1, 2009 @ 10:31 am | Reply

  253. The problem is not racism! The problem is foreigners taking American jobs. It’s that simple. Like I said earlier, if this were happening in India, China or ANY other country there would be a major outcry. But, since we live in the US for some reason Americans are expected to roll over and take it. We are growing very tired of taking it obviously. This will become more and more apparent as the economy worsens.

    I ask again to the non US citizens: In your country if a large percentage of jobs were taken by foreigners would you not be angry?

    Comment by TimeToGO — March 1, 2009 @ 10:45 am | Reply

  254. There is a reason why foreigners are taking American jobs:

    1. The quality of education in America has deteriorated over the years.
    2. Most American kids don’t graduate high school.
    3. Successive governments have reduced spending on education. Budgets to schools and universities have been slashed.
    4. American kids fare poorly in international competitions like Math Olympiad, for example.
    5. Compare this will China and India where governments have been steadily increasing the quality of education. Haven’t you heard of IITs?

    Once America fixes these fundamental problems, there is no need to depend on foreigners for these science and engineering jobs.

    Comment by Thinker — March 1, 2009 @ 10:55 am | Reply

    • Thinker, all five points you make may be true. But I think your conclusion that these 5 points are why Cisco (or other companies) are hiring H1-B’s or outsourcing US jobs to Inida is completely wrong. These companies are doing it because H1-B’s are willing to work for much lower pay and engineers in India are paid much less than their US counterparts. I am part of a recent outsourcing and the reason for the outsourcing, as stated by the VP & GM of our organization, is because Cisco is saving money by replacing us with engineers in India.

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 12:34 pm | Reply

  255. In UNICEF Ranking, U.S. Teens Come in 18th – by School Reform News staff – School Reform News.

    In the first “big picture” comparison of the relative effectiveness of education systems across the developed world, UNICEF reported the United States came in 18th out of 24 nations when the results from five different international educational studies were combined into a composite average ranking

    Comment by Thinker — March 1, 2009 @ 11:04 am | Reply

  256. 255: I agree. The US is the ONLY country that does not protect its citizen’s right to make a living. The short-sightedness of the government and big business is going to come back and bite them very very soon.

    World War III here we come. Or maybe Civil War II. I think this only ends with war. A BIG war.

    Comment by Red Badge — March 1, 2009 @ 11:14 am | Reply

  257. Warren Buffett hints at Indian successor

    There was Midas, and then there’s Warren Buffett. The world’s greatest living investor has been justly hailed as the Oracle of Omaha his
    financial skills catapulted him to the status of the worlds richest man last year, ahead of buddy and bridge partner Bill Gates, and Mexican telecom tycoon Carlos Slim Helu.

    Now, Buffett has hinted that his successor may be a person of Indian origin, Ajit Jain. In his annual letter to shareholders of his holding company, Berkshire Hathaway, Buffett showered praise on Jain, who handles the reinsurance division.

    He wrote, Ajit came to Berkshire in 1986. Very quickly, I realized we had acquired an extraordinary talent. So I did the logical thing: I wrote his parents in New Delhi and asked if they had another one like him at home. Of course, I knew the answer before writing. There isn’t anyone like Ajit.

    Jain is a graduate of IIT Kharagpur and has an MBA from Harvard. A former McKinsey executive, he migrated to the US as his wife was keen to live there.

    Buffett calls the reinsurance division “one of the most remarkable businesses in the world” because it employs only 31 people but generates billions. “It features very large transactions, incredible speed of execution and a willingness to quote on policies that leave others scratching their heads. When there is a huge and unusual risk to be insured, Ajit is almost certain to be called.”

    Comment by jackbauer — March 1, 2009 @ 12:23 pm | Reply

  258. #260
    “Berkshire’s fourth-quarter net income fell 96 percent to $117 million, the firm said yesterday”

    “while the insurance and utilities businesses fared well because their prospects aren’t correlated with the economy”


    Intelligence is different than a standardized test.

    Comment by TestNEInTelligence — March 1, 2009 @ 12:54 pm | Reply

  259. #249, most the managers are indians and only promote with in each other.. it is indian mafia which rules cisco.. it is a freaking joke.

    This is not a freaking joke. Is Cisco management saying all these postions cannot be filled by non-Indians and only Indians are qualified?

    This is very serious and should be investigated by EEOC.

    Comment by anonymous — March 1, 2009 @ 1:44 pm | Reply

  260. #262, The answer is yes, they cannot be filled by dumb non-Indians worker or managers.

    Of course the people calling the shots are Cisco Indian managers.

    I watched as non-Indian workers/mangers tranferred or quit in the BU I was with.

    Comment by anonymous — March 1, 2009 @ 1:57 pm | Reply

  261. Whoever has lost their jobs, read carefully on how we can get your job back. This is very important.

    Read about new PERM guidelines that is issues by DOL, regarding supervised Recruiting.

    DOL is now going to organize a supervised recruitment for the Green Card applicant. A Certifying Officer will be assigned to each organization. Some of the firm that laidoff US citizens may be under scrutiny. I don’t want to publish their names.

    If you are a citizen and you lost your job and if your co-worker has filed a Green Card for the same position as yours and is still working for your firm, in that case, you can approach the DOL and explain them everything. They will direct you to the CO assigned for your corporation. Your corporation will have a hard time proving that you don’t fit the role, that you were in for so many years. If they cannot prove the point, you may get your job back and the Green Card and H1B for your co-worker may be suspended and he may have to leave the country in 30 days.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 1, 2009 @ 2:30 pm | Reply

  262. Everybody,

    Please start reading on “Supervised Recruiting”.

    We may get our jobs back.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 1, 2009 @ 2:33 pm | Reply

  263. DOL Advises to Expect More Supervised Recruitment in PERM Cases
    Wednesday, 18 February 2009 17:32

    Due to the current state of the economy, the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) has recently advised that employers in industries should expect to start receiving more supervised recruitment notices on PERM applications. A PERM application is an application that is filed by an employer on behalf of a foreign national after an extensive recruitment process has determined that there are no qualified and available U.S. workers to fill a particular position. The PERM application is, in many cases, the first step on the road to U.S. permanent residence for a foreign national.

    The DOL has not singled out any specific jobs or locations that are likely to be subjected to supervised recruitment other than Financial Analysts in New York City. However, employers should anticipate that DOL will carefully review pending PERM applications against actual data regarding layoffs in the area in order to determine whether there appear to have been so many layoffs in the field or geographic area that supervised recruitment should be required before a PERM application may be approved.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 1, 2009 @ 2:37 pm | Reply

  264. DOL Startled by Rising Unemployment
    February 13, 2009 – 8:09 am
    The Department of Labor (DOL) is startled by rising unemployment figures and has started to take steps towards minimizing unemployment and protecting US workers. Nearly 1.2 million jobs were lost in the last five months and 180,000 jobs were lost in the last month alone. DOL is astonished with the fact that millions of US workers are laid off but there is no decrease in PERM filing.

    To begin with, DOL has increased supervised recruitment to try and counter continued layoffs. Thus far, after issuing supervised recruitment notices the employers have withdrawn more than half of the cases, creating suspicions that majority of PERM cases filed were sham. DOL will study the layoffs data collected through its field offices and will rigorously pursue supervised recruitments in coming days to ensure employers are properly testing the labor market for availability of US workers.

    Sphere: Related Content

    Comment by Anonymous — March 1, 2009 @ 2:41 pm | Reply

  265. #261,

    What’s your point about patents? Are you ripping SAT and GRE or some other standardized testing?

    Are you saying US has more patents, so Americans are smarter?

    I am just curious.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 1, 2009 @ 2:42 pm | Reply

  266. 15 Feb 2009 00:29

    02/14/2009: Tough Times Ahead for Professional Foreign Workers in EB-Based Nonimmigrant or Immigrant Journeys

    The just relased arrests and indictments of eleven people for H-1B frauds by U.S. District Attorney in Iowa may not be taken as an isolated event or incident. It is a signal showing government’s determination to crack down abuse of the employment-based nonimmigrant and immigrant proceedings for the purpose of alleged protection of U.S. workers’ jobs. This is a union-backed government. Besides, current economic crisis allegedly mandates the government leaders to take an action to protect American workers’ jobs. No one will be in surprise to see Senators Durbin and Grassley reintroducing sooner or later their H-1B and L-1 reform legisation which they introduced last year but failed to make it before the last Congress closed at the end of 2008. The H-1B and L-1 reform legislation will mandate the agencies’ reinforcement of enforcement activities against the abuse of such visas and tighten the threshold requirements for these visas in a line similar to the TARP-funded employer H-1B rules. Reinforcement of enforcement actions is soon to be made easy because of the two developments. One is reengineering of agencies’s filing system and database in a direction of “account” system for each involved employer, each representative, and each alien worker, allowing detection of violation of the rules easy. The USCIS has been pushing such reengineering process in the form of electronization of filing of petitions and applications using “account” system and building such database. The DOL has also been working on such reengineering and is scheduled to implement it beginning from May 2009 for H-1B labor condition application filing using new ETA 9035 form which is designed to accomodate such account system and dababase and from July 2009 for PERM labor certification application filing using new ETA 9089 form which is also designed to accomodate such concept. The other development that makes the government’s enforcement activities easy is electronization and data-sharing system among different agencies and their database. Electronization of the processes makes such data sharing available and easy among the related agencies. Expansion of E-Verify programs allows the Social Security Administration to participate in such enforcement process. Timing of release of recent indictment of evelen alleged H-1B visa fraud offenders is in a way not just a coincident.
    The Chief of DOL Division of Foreign Labor Certification, Dr. William Carlson, released as recent as February 2, 2009 that in the first quarter (October, November, December 2008) of FY 2009, they completed about 4,500 PERM applications, but in one month of January 2009 alone, they completed about 3,500 applications. But don’t get excited about this statistics. He cautioned that the processing times would slow down as they feed into adjudication process investigation of unemployment conditions in various labor markets, increasingly turning cases into so-called “supervised recruitment” process considering worsening labor markets and rising unemployment. When the agency posted the supervised recruitment Q&A on its website quite some time back, we speculated that it was intended to send out a signal that they would increase supervised recruitment cases ahead. It has turned out that it was not just speculation. Worse yet, the Chief stated that once a case is turned into a supervised recruitment track, there is no set processing time implying that it can take time and time. When the PERM system is already clogged bad, the information is indeed depressing. On top of all of these, the newly designated Republican Commerce Secretary who was known to be a H-1B program supporter all of sudden backed out from participation in the Obama administration. Year 2009 may be marked as a difficult year for foreign workers, particularly professional foreign workers.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 1, 2009 @ 7:12 pm | Reply

  267. Indian IT folks that I have worked with/interviewed at Cisco have been either great or horrible. So far there has been no middle ground. I find it really odd. The great ones know what they are doing, are professional and very competent. The horrible ones always have degrees and many technical certifications but somehow know NOTHING related to their so called expertise. The latter are really starting to make it difficult for other Indian engineers, or at least in my BU. Before the freeze we become very wary of any engineering interviewee from India.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 1, 2009 @ 8:13 pm | Reply

  268. #253 – Thank You for the toughtful post.

    #256 – I guess nobody is saying Americans are expected to roll over and take it, but before blaming “foreigners” for all job loss, it probably is prudent to do introspection. Please keep in mind, all immigrants are grateful to US as it has given them better life in most cases and also immigrants realize that Americans are probably among the most accomodating people on earth.
    However, at any graduate level engineering course, when you look at the ratio of American (rather white Americans) to others, I believe you will get your answers. Do not trust any statistics – Just see for yourself. I was hired after completing MSEE from a good university and I do not think I was picked specifically because I was Indian. But close to 70%-75% people graduating with me were non-US-born people. That’s just the truth.
    Now as some of you suggest, not all Indians are great engineers, but truth of the matter is many of them possess enough skills to get the job done – Cheaper (H-1B imports) or otherwise (US educated Indian engineers)
    cheers & peace.

    Comment by bye_bye_08 — March 1, 2009 @ 9:12 pm | Reply

  269. #253,
    Excellent observation. This however does not justify that only Indians are in many positions of management and overwhelming number of Indian enginers are employed in certain Cisco BU’s.

    You stated that 70 – 75% graduated are not US born. But these include all other nationalities. This is certainly not the case within the ranks in certain Cisco BU’s.

    Comment by anonymous — March 1, 2009 @ 9:42 pm | Reply

  270. This conversation has deviated, strangely enough, to a debate on which race is best? Beware the lessons of history lest we repeat them!!! Exclusion turns to Animosity, Animosity turns to Hatred, and Hatred turns to the Unspeakable…

    Comment by Middle East — March 1, 2009 @ 11:13 pm | Reply

  271. 273: You’d sing a different tune if your job had been sent to India. It’s time say it – AMerican Jobs for Americans. Welcome to America – now go home.

    Comment by Red Badge — March 1, 2009 @ 11:19 pm | Reply

    • Never make assumptions Red Badge, I am an American and so were my forefathers as far back as the Slave Ships!!! My job does depend on it, but at what cost? $$$ or Lives?

      Comment by Middle East — March 1, 2009 @ 11:34 pm | Reply

  272. Please bring it to the attention of the authorities.

    Comment by Red Badge — March 2, 2009 @ 9:37 am | Reply

  273. Click to access 2004,0928-cisco_systems.pdf

    Please read this artical on how CISCO was denied Green Card under Supervised Recruitment

    Comment by Anonymous — March 2, 2009 @ 9:39 am | Reply

  274. Sounds like CISCO is now under Supervised Recruitment (investigated)

    Law Firms Must be Babysat by DOL
    July 10th, 2008 · 1 Comment
    hide Google Search ResultsYou arrived here after searching for the following phrases:

    supervised recruitment
    Click a phrase to jump to the first occurrence, or return to the search results.

    Who can forget the Cohen & Grigsby How To NOT Hire an American video series ? Well, one year later, the DOL has announced:

    it has begun placing pending permanent labor certification applications filed by the Cohen & Grigsby law firm into department-supervised recruitment. Supervised recruitment requires the employer to receive advance approval from the department for all recruitment efforts to ensure that U.S. workers are fully considered for available positions.

    The department may institute supervised recruitment when, among other reasons, it has concerns that an employer, attorney or agent may not have complied with department regulations or properly recruited or considered U.S. workers for available positions.

    Last year, the department began auditing applications filed by Cohen & Grigsby as a result of information indicating the firm may have improperly advised its clients regarding the recruitment of U.S. workers. Because of concerns identified in the audits, the department is requiring supervised recruitment for certain applications filed by Cohen & Grigsby

    One must ask themselves what is an immigration law firm doing in the High Tech employment recruitment business for their clients in the first place? Well, there is a new investigation against Fragomen, the law firm Cisco uses, involving writing bogus job ads, routed to the immigration firm itself and only for purposes of avoiding hiring Americans.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 2, 2009 @ 9:42 am | Reply

  275. One must ask themselves what is an immigration law firm doing in the High Tech employment recruitment business for their clients in the first place? Well, there is a new investigation against Fragomen, the law firm Cisco uses, involving writing bogus job ads, routed to the immigration firm itself and only for purposes of avoiding hiring Americans.

    The DOL even debarred LawLogix Group Inc from filing applications for permanent labor certification. The debarment will be in effect for three years. Seems they were automatically filing bogus applications through automated software. That is how U.S. jobs are looked at by corporations and these immigration law firms, simply a fee to capture, no real people attached!

    Now look at the immigration attorneys’ respoonses. My, my, they sure are not threatened, more they are outraged that the DOL is interfering with their business:

    The recruitment mandated under 20 CFR 656 is a labor market test – it is not intended to be a recruitment process culminating in the hiring of a US worker. However, we stand by our long-stated position that nothing in 212(a)(5)(A) permits DOL to shove a labor market test down employers’ throats

    Get that? The immigration attorneys believe jobs for Americans in the United States is one big game, one doesn’t actually have to look for or hire Americans. The legal loopholes in the law, which they helped manipulate, are written into these statues, so they maybe are right on this one.

    They also believe that the DOL is simply running a Press release war.

    Well, a press release war or not, what these immigration attorneys do is make sure Americans are displaced and getting a hell of a lot of money for it in the process. Guest worker Visas need serious reform and a good place to start is passing Guest Worker and Employment Based Green Card reforms.

    Don’t think processing people is a business for these attorneys? Look at the rush to get into the legal practice area. We seriously, seriously need to offshore outsource attorneys for only then will they wake up and stop making huge bucks by being glorified slave traders for the global marketplace.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 2, 2009 @ 9:44 am | Reply

  276. Everbody,

    Whoever has lost their jobs please read # 279, you can get your job back.

    Please spread the word.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 2, 2009 @ 9:57 am | Reply

  277. 280: Sadly, not if you were a contactor. That only applies if you were FT.

    Comment by Red Badge — March 2, 2009 @ 10:00 am | Reply

  278. Correction: Contractor.

    Comment by Red Badge — March 2, 2009 @ 10:01 am | Reply

  279. Yes # 279 is only for FTE.

    Please find out who the Certifing Officer for your organisation is and explaim him your R & R and get your job back.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 2, 2009 @ 10:11 am | Reply

  280. JackBauer,

    Deprtment of Labor is aware of this and like I mentioned earlier, DOL has issued new guideline on PREM process (read Supervised Recruitement).

    Comment by Anonymous — March 2, 2009 @ 11:06 am | Reply

  281. DOL Startled by Rising Unemployment

    The Department of Labor (DOL) is startled by rising unemployment figures and has started to take steps towards minimizing unemployment and protecting US workers. Nearly 1.2 million jobs were lost in the last five months and 180,000 jobs were lost in the last month alone. DOL is astonished with the fact that millions of US workers are laid off but there is no decrease in PERM filing.

    To begin with, DOL has increased supervised recruitment to try and counter continued layoffs. Thus far, after issuing supervised recruitment notices the employers have withdrawn more than half of the cases, creating suspicions that majority of PERM cases filed were sham. DOL will study the layoffs data collected through its field offices and will rigorously pursue supervised recruitments in coming days to ensure employers are properly testing the labor market for availability of US workers.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 2, 2009 @ 11:09 am | Reply

    • Ok. To make the long story short: Do not blame H1B guest workers; we are in the same boat, thanks to the recession. However the author does not tell us: do we have to be in the same boat? Useless article.

      Comment by Anonymous — March 2, 2009 @ 11:54 am | Reply

  282. This land was here thousands of years before you were born and will be here thousands of years after you all die.

    Native Americans(American Indian), Indians from India, Asians, Euro Caucasians(Whites), and African Americans(Blacks), you are all screwed when Cisco decides to layoff 14,000 people. I used the quotes in case you had no idea where you come from.

    Comment by JT10107 — March 2, 2009 @ 12:21 pm | Reply

    • American Paleolithic Humans must be pissed off at the first place.

      Comment by Anonymous — March 2, 2009 @ 12:28 pm | Reply

  283. Any news on any more layoffs?

    Comment by Anonymous — March 3, 2009 @ 12:08 pm | Reply

  284. One thing is for sure. Many (note, not all) are experts at lying on their resumes. And not just on their resumes. They know what to say to get the job. This is to be expected. They come from a country where corruption is rife both in industry and government. Never, for example, give a take home test to a group of students that are primarily indian. The probability of cheating will be much higher.

    More on deception: you can say anything about your work experience in india. Your employer is not likely to check, especially if you are a contractor. In fact, if your employer got you through a vendor, it might even be expected that the vendor did the employment verification.

    I’ll give you an anecdotal example of someone I know. This person lied on her resume to get a job as an oracle developer. She got it. And got fired because she did not know enough. Eventually, she got another job, and got fired again, but this time she stayed in longer. The third time, she knew just enough to keep the job.

    Also, there’s no doubt that cisco prefers H1-b. It’s a cost thing. You can pay them less and they are less likely to leave on their own. Of course there are qualified US citizens, but why pay more when you don’t have to?
    Many of the jobs at cisco are for instance, for java programmers. This is not a specialized skill that cannot be found in the US. Yes, true expert level java programmers are hard to find (these would probably not be work for cisco anyway), but that is not for the most what cisco hires; in fact cisco is filled with mediocre or less then mediocre java programmers. (Yes there are exceptions)

    It’s very strange that most of the CDO choice hires (referring here only to engineers) are indian who got their BS in india and have just finished their 2-year MS here. Where are the American kids? Is that the ones from the top universities just don’t want to come to cisco? Or is it because most of them are H1-bs?

    The machinations of indian-owned body shops are also to blame for the large indian population at cisco. If indians know how to get a job based on deception, body shops are the true hustlers. They know how to get jobs for their bodies. They’ll even rewrite resumes, often stretching the truth to fit the job description. Furthermore, they will shield the job opening from the public. If you are a hiring manager, you go to your favorite contracting vendor (often indian owned) and ask for someone with a specific skill set. You probably don’t post directly on a job site. The vendor then supplies resumes from his pool of mostly indian H1-bs. A good portion of contractors then go on to become full-time employees.

    Also this leads to a formula for the indian immigrant (paticularly the south indian immigrant). One that has been followed by hundred of thousands. As a young immigrant, you might work a few years in india (you may or may not have a BS), come here, hook up with a body shop, get a job (at this point you might be low paid since you are being exploited by the body shop because you have an h1-b and they are doing your green card), work, and eventually you may find a way to break the shackles of your employer. In the meantime you buy a used car. A couple of years down the road you find a wife, go to india, bring her back here (and she starts her masters in comp sci at a local university, because in india, paticularly south india, doctors tend to marry doctors and software engineers tend to marry software engineers), and upgrade your car to high-end luxury model. As I write, I realize that every detail of the forumla is worked out for the young indian immigrant, from marriage (finding bride is a straightforward but tedious process) to job (again, a straightforward but tedious process).

    Comment by Anonymous — March 3, 2009 @ 3:08 pm | Reply

    • Well Anonymous- it is not so easy as you think. If INDIANS were really faking then what is the US govt doing? Why is CISCO getting so big a profits ?

      Comment by Sammy — March 4, 2009 @ 1:08 am | Reply

      • yes, those who work hard get the fruits of their labor….until their jobs get outsourced to India. Cisco has been outsourcing for quite a while now. Length of time the employees worked for Cisco is of no interest to Cisco. They couldn’t care less how hard you worked for them or for how long you worked for them

        Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 6:03 am | Reply

    • You answered it yourself.Whats wrong in working hard for a living finding a wife and settling down in life instead of dropping out of college,costly prenups and eventual divorce.
      The only point i agree with you is the bodyshops who exploit engineers.Write to your senators and lawmakers to stop the H1B visa program say for an year.
      Other than that America is a country of immigrants who come here for a better life .Those who work hard get the fruits of their labor.

      Comment by JackBauer — March 4, 2009 @ 9:25 am | Reply

      • And some faking helps. It is just how it’s done.

        Indian school of business
        Rajpat (father): I want you to marry a girl of my choice.
        Son:” I will choose my own bride!!!”
        Rajpat: “But the girl is Bill Gates’s daughter..”
        Son: “Well, in that case… ok”

        Next Rajpat approaches Bill Gates.
        Rajpat: “I have a husband for your daughter….”
        Bill Gates: “But my daughter is too young to marry!!!!!”
        Rajpat: “But this young man is a vice-president of the World Bank.”
        Bill Gates: “Ah, in that case… ok”

        Finally Rajpat goes to see the president of the World Bank.
        Rajpat: “I have a young man to be recommended as a vice-president..”
        President: “But I already have more vice- presidents than I need!”
        Rajpat: “But this young man is Bill Gates’s son-in-law.”
        President: “Ah, in that case… ok”
        And that, my friend, is how Indians do business!.

        Comment by Anonymous — March 5, 2009 @ 1:11 pm | Reply

  285. One thing I have to clarify, for one I’m not an Indian, but I would admit I’m on H1. Part of the filing process for an H1 petition is to get a prevailing wage, this was implemented to make sure there’s a fair salary amongst people with the same skills and level of experience whether foreigner or US Citizen or Resident.
    But I do echo your plights of making sure US Citizens/residents are taken care of, and the fact that immigrants should be accomodated but not at the expense of qualified and rightful natives.
    And in closing before a person is made full time employee at Cisco there’s a company called hire right that performs background check and also verifies if the credential and information provide are bona fide

    Comment by Tman — March 3, 2009 @ 4:07 pm | Reply

  286. Cisco is an International Company, whose sole motive is to make profit. It is not a non-profit government organization. So, in my opinion, all this discussion is useless. John Chambers will do everything in his power to remain profitable and I don’t blame him for that. End of matter.

    And just to confirm, there has been a company-wide “limited re-structuring” and no particular “race” was treated specially. Everyone has been affected.

    Comment by iceman3012 — March 4, 2009 @ 4:26 am | Reply

    • Yes, no particular “race” was treated specially, and I ask you, how do you know this?

      Comment by ice — March 4, 2009 @ 3:16 pm | Reply

      • Because I know enough people on both the sides, who have been affected. The only major criterion seems to be the team you are working in.

        Comment by iceman3012 — March 4, 2009 @ 11:20 pm | Reply

    • Yes, actually for the stock holder it is good. Unless you have been restructured.
      Cut head count, reduce OpEx, boost stock holders’ value.

      Comment by Anonymous — March 5, 2009 @ 1:32 pm | Reply

  287. Any new lay offs now?

    Comment by GiveMeRed — March 4, 2009 @ 2:37 pm | Reply

  288. Is it true that the new round of layoffs started?

    Comment by NoPolitics — March 4, 2009 @ 2:39 pm | Reply

  289. I see bunch of L1 visa holders employees of saytam, tcs, infosys, wipro and other offshore companies work in Cisco’s San Jose building, is that legal. I heard L1 – is meant for Inter compant transfer , the resource is expected to work out of company premise and not at client (Cisco or any client) site. I have a list of individual names.

    I am planning to make a complaint against, whom can I contact.

    Comment by Karyas — March 5, 2009 @ 7:43 am | Reply

  290. Its illegal to get folks on L-1 and locate them on a client’s site. This abuse has been going on for too long. Cisco Managers (Indian/Chinese and others) strike deals with these companies for a cut. Just cut these guys loose. I have no problems with contract employees on h1-b making fare wage. Its frustrating to see all these outsourcing companies turn into body shops, abuse the immigrantion laws and distribute bonuses to their ceo’s. If Infosys wants to place locally, let them search the labor market and pay fair wage.

    Comment by retards — March 5, 2009 @ 1:51 pm | Reply

  291. #296 who are the authorities I need to inform about L1 abuse.

    Today Cisco EDW operations team has announced, that Cisco is hiring 13-15 Satyam L1 contractors
    Cisco will sponsor visa for those new hire and retain on their payroll
    most of these new hire have less than 5 years of experience,
    Cisco can easily find many highly skilled( in terms of experience, knowledge etc.) American citizens/Green Card holders in market today.
    IT manager – Hilda Salazar is hiring them without interviewing US citizens and GC holders

    Comment by Khan — March 7, 2009 @ 3:28 am | Reply

  292. #296 who are the authorities I need to inform about L1 abuse.

    Today Cisco EDW operations team has announced, that Cisco is hiring 13-15 Satyam L1 contractors
    Cisco will sponsor visa for those new hire and retain on their payroll
    most of these new hire have less than 5 years of experience,
    Cisco can easily find many highly skilled( in terms of experience, knowledge etc.) American citizens/Green Card holders in market today.
    IT manager – Hilda Salazar is hiring them without interviewing US citizens and GC holders

    Comment by skandha — March 7, 2009 @ 3:28 am | Reply

  293. John Chambers’ pronouncement that “Cisco will do a one time massive layoff if the downturn persists” would seem to be a bunch of baloney. They are dribbling people out the door in small bunches. I am told that the offices most affected in the recent dribbling included Massachusetts, Texas and Israel. Contractors and FT employees are apparently being whacked in ones and twos everywhere … some mgrs were told to get rid of around 1 out of every 15 employees selected by performance ranking.

    I know they have to do this and I’m not criticizing what is happening, except to point out that Chambers has lost credibility by following the same gameplan as the last downturn after explicitly saying that he would make the cuts “deep and clean”. I suspect that he honestly intended to do it differently, but probably it’s harder than he thought to make the tough decisions to eliminate entire products and close down offices. The default mode is to let the beancounters decide for you, and out of ignorance of the product line and market prospects they will come up with a dribbling plan to make many small cuts repeatedly according to short-term conditions. The cost of this indecision and stumbling along is that morale suffers a lot more than if the cut had been one-time, deep and clean.

    Comment by handyman — March 7, 2009 @ 8:41 am | Reply

  294. Whatever is going on, it will all settle down. By the way I’m looking to buy a car from another cisco employee who is going back to India. See my post on

    Comment by Qu Vuh — March 7, 2009 @ 9:00 am | Reply

  295. #297 you are right, Cisco EDW team is converting only satyam employees(most of them are in L1 visa and rest are in H1b visa) to FTE, EDW team is NOT converting other US Citizen and GC holder contractors to FTE.

    I bet those satyam contractors don’t know many things but the manager likes them

    Comment by Sumant — March 8, 2009 @ 5:41 am | Reply

  296. It is a rumour that CISCO is planning to layoff 750 people in India. This is very shocking considering the low cost factor in India. The severance package I heard is complete 7 months salary.
    Severance package offered by other companies in India is similar.
    Cadence – 6 month salary
    Motorola – 6-24 months salary
    Texas Instruments – 0 Yes it is zero. This company only has rosy picture, it has worst policy. They are doing back door layoff in India.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 8, 2009 @ 11:07 am | Reply

    • Please stop publishing this kind of rumor.

      Comment by Anonymous — March 12, 2009 @ 5:47 am | Reply

      • The rumour is right. though the number is less. Around 25 people were laid off from CISCO india this month. The 750 number is of worldwide reduction.

        Comment by Indian — March 15, 2009 @ 1:08 pm | Reply

  297. The San Jose Mercury News paper business section run a story about the chief tehnology officer of Cisco Systems. If one reads the piece closely one can discern the business plans and objectives of Chambers and his company (By keeping wages and head count low Cisco can add value to profits and it’s stock). By keeping wages low Cisco changes the whole dynamics of wages for the market to the disadvantage of the many for real advantage of the few.

    Due to down ward sprial of wages and prices due to job loss and credit, this is not the time Cisco and like employers will cry out for change in the foreign worker laws. No law maker in DC will even talk about it in public. Note it’s not even on the GOP/Obama agenda. If Cisco cried today for foreign worker laws and demanded more foreign workers in public I bet Chambers would be unemployed.

    Consider, that due to changes in technoloy, trade and labor many jobs lost in the sweet old USA are gone for good. Only a few major banks remain that means workers fired from the likes of Washington Mutual are gone baby gone for good. Cisco will limp alone with a lower head count thanks to part time workers, temps and contract workers and of course out sourcing. It’s going to cut benefits for fulltime labor.

    Being short of money, central governments will continue to shift responsibility for social programs to local government, without regard to the availability of funds. The US government will reduce grants to the states, without at the same time reducing the states’ responsibilities for health and welfare. The states in turn will have revenue shortages, and shift the responsibilities to the counties, cities and local communities. The local communities will be stuck with the burdens but they won’t have the funds or the taxing authority to handle the problems. This shift is just one implication of the growing shortage of government revenues accompanying fundamental changes in the political economy. Resources are being placed out of reach and government is playing a shell game. In the near term, probably nobody will pick up the slack. That means reduced funding for education, for health insurance or for programs like Medicaid and Medicare. More people in the United States will fall outside the scope of these programs and there will be a higher proportion of people without educational opportunities, without medical insurance, and without pension plans. As in earlier periods of history, people will turn to private enterprise to ensure their welfare and security, and the authority of government will diminish in helping those with job loss, health care (the deal being worked out for health care is still a market driven system), education, old age care, and disability.

    People believe or not we are on our own – the system is broke, the state is broke and there will be no change but YOU

    Comment by chance — March 10, 2009 @ 4:17 pm | Reply

  298. Seems contractors are being cut across even important IT projects for the next quarter with budgets and headcounts slashed. This has been done purely for the reason of meeting their plans to slash expenditure and doesn’t account for the loss to the business with many promised projects taking longer or being scrapped. Very disappointed to see Cisco putting shareholders before it’s own staff. I guess this is an example of the very same corporate greed which has caused the credit crunch.
    Expect big losses in contractors before the next quarter as there is little to no funding for them after that. Late March will be ‘interesting’

    Comment by Anonymous — March 10, 2009 @ 4:42 pm | Reply

  299. Cisco quietly downsizing through outsourcing

    Comment by CHANCE — March 12, 2009 @ 1:05 pm | Reply

    • Wow! A network world article. They’re a bunch of anti-Cisco retards.

      Comment by A — March 16, 2009 @ 11:24 pm | Reply


    Chambers should be sent to prison for treason.

    Comment by Jack Ridley — March 12, 2009 @ 3:43 pm | Reply

    • He should be shot!

      With all the forced ranking (groups are forced to pick out the bottom 5% and 10% of their group, regardless of whether they are doing a good job or not, and consequently these unfortunate 5% – 10% are ineligible for salary increases and bonuses – bonuses make up a substantial part of Cisco worker’s compensations. These unlucky people are also not allowed to transfer to other jobs within Cisco while they are in the bottom 5% – 10%), the “limited restructuring” (i.e. layoffs and outsourcing), general salary freezes since 2001 and starting last year, the stopping of stock option grants to the general population (i.e. anybody below the rank of manager) – I think Cisco may start seeing some voluntary turnover when the economy improves.

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 6:29 am | Reply

      • Maybe you can start the trend by leaving Cisco.

        No one got a bonus this year so far – leave alone the bottom 10%.

        If you’re in the bottom 10%, that means there are 55000 employees better than you. Why would they want to retain a poor performer?

        Comment by A — March 16, 2009 @ 11:17 pm | Reply

  301. Jack Ridley, soon cisco will be in the list of 3com, nortel, motorola. then chamber will realize his mistake

    Comment by Kumar — March 14, 2009 @ 8:16 am | Reply

    • I doubt it, but we can only hope. :^)

      Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 1:38 pm | Reply

    • John Chambers is too smug to admit a mistake. He is going to save the world! Cisco has invested too much money in their India initiative and will never admit that it was a poor decision.

      Comment by anon — March 16, 2009 @ 4:56 am | Reply

      • That’s because it wasn’t a poor decision.

        Comment by A — March 16, 2009 @ 11:20 pm | Reply

        • Why do you think it was not a poor decision?

          Comment by anon — March 17, 2009 @ 3:58 pm | Reply

  302. Already chamber had personal dealing with ex satyam owner ramalinga raju. same with other indian outsourcing companies

    Comment by Kumar — March 14, 2009 @ 8:17 am | Reply

    • Who are you Kumar? Don’t you know that Chambers is a name, and using the singular form (Chamber) is just ridiculous? I don’t know what you have against Chambers, or Cisco. Were you laid off? Maybe you need to learn how to communicate.

      Comment by A — March 16, 2009 @ 11:21 pm | Reply


    >> Chambers should be sent to prison for treason.

    305, this is really sad… chambers call cisco a family.. but he is the first to cut the supply line on his own family…. cisco is a disgrace company… cisco, go back to india and operate from there…

    Comment by Bob — March 14, 2009 @ 12:41 pm | Reply

    • And yet he thinks he’s a fucking hero because he’s paying for his own private jet.

      Comment by Jack Ridley — March 15, 2009 @ 7:06 pm | Reply

      • I think the way it works is that it is a Cisco corporate jet and Chambers pays the difference between whatever the cost of a flight is on the corporate jet versus the going rate for a chartered flight from somebody else, but then why would a flight on a jet operated by your own company be any more expensive than a flight on a chartered airline?

        Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 11:35 pm | Reply

      • And you think you’re a fucking hero by posting this? Whoever you are Jack Ridley, you need to check facts. Your comments in this topic have been slanderous. It is your kind of attitude that makes people like you get fired. No one likes to work with you and no one likes you. Period.

        Comment by A — March 16, 2009 @ 11:19 pm | Reply

    • chamber new treat cisco employees as his family members, he rather treats them as slaves.
      i have seen many of his company meetings he forces employees to agree his decision (else you know he is not going to get future benefits)

      most of his body language is like a gay

      Comment by Khaja — March 16, 2009 @ 6:42 am | Reply

    • chamber new treat cisco employees as his family members, he rather treats them as slaves.
      i have seen many of his company meetings he forces employees to agree his decision (else you know he is not going to get future benefits)

      most of his body language is like a gay
      this is my friend’s interpretation

      Comment by Khaja — March 16, 2009 @ 6:42 am | Reply

      • Khaja … Kumar … decide your name. They say that only gay people recognize gay body language. Tell you friend to go f*ck up a flag pole.

        Comment by A — March 16, 2009 @ 11:22 pm | Reply

  304. i really hope that american and european “cisco” consumers boycott cisco.. no wonder cisco is losing the edge in the routing market.

    Comment by Bob — March 14, 2009 @ 12:43 pm | Reply

  305. According to,

    Cisco Systems is planning layoff of 22 people on 4/17/09 and 233 people on 4/24/09 in SJ headquarter.

    Anyone has information on which BU will be affect? And if these people already received their pink slip?

    Comment by SJ_Workforce — March 14, 2009 @ 2:45 pm | Reply

    • This seems to be related to the ones announced in Feb-end.

      Comment by A — March 16, 2009 @ 11:15 pm | Reply

  306. When Cisco opened the new Development Center in Bangalore, India, J. Chambers stated his goal was to have 20% of the Cisco workforce based there. The requisitions for this headcount in Bangalore is not coming from the creation of new jobs but through the firing of US workers in order to ship their jobs to India.

    Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 5:52 am | Reply

    • Hey People in India were also laid off this month.
      Please check the details before you speak.

      Comment by Indian — March 15, 2009 @ 1:02 pm | Reply

      • I think you’re missing the point. What I stated IS fact. Were the Indian people that were laid off outsourced by people in the US? Did I state in my post that NO people in India were laid off? Can you tell me which details I need to check in my previous post that you have detected as being false?

        Comment by Cisco engineer — March 15, 2009 @ 1:37 pm | Reply

        • Yes, and all Indians/Chinese should leave the US and let the economy rot.

          Comment by A — March 16, 2009 @ 11:22 pm | Reply

          • without indians and chinese this company will grow this big, think carefully before you say this.

            Comment by king — March 19, 2009 @ 11:49 am | Reply

      • ALL the Cisco people in India should be laid off and the jobs sent back here.

        Comment by Jack Ridley — March 15, 2009 @ 7:07 pm | Reply

        • Jack,

          If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.

          Comment by Amused — March 16, 2009 @ 11:44 am | Reply

        • Your understanding of macroeconomics is very poor. You want people across the world to buy Cisco equipment, nortel equipment, nike shoes, levi’s jeans etc. But you don’t want local people in countries around the world to be building those products or stitching those clothes. Then the revenues from those sales are anyways coming back to San Jose or New Jersey. So why not keep the money also in India or China from the revenues are made. The world is under a major demographic shift, if you haven’t woken up to realise that. The growth is going to come from the 1B consumers in Asia, which continues to grow. The consumer market in US today is big but its shifting as we speak. Cisco/Nokia/Siemens/IBM/HP/Microsoft/Intel/Nike/Walmart/IKEA are all looking at their major markets and where their growth is coming from, and investing there, rightly so. Thats what macro economics is all about. They are also killing small entrepreneurs, local businesses etc. There is good and bad about globalisation, depends on which side you are today.

          Comment by Anonymous — March 16, 2009 @ 10:57 pm | Reply

          • I don’t think it is the fact that Cisco wants to hire engineers in India that people find offensive. It is the fact that Cisco is firing American engineers and then giving their jobs to engineers in India.

            Comment by Cisco Engineer — March 24, 2009 @ 11:49 pm | Reply

        • You really don’t understand how the economy works, do you?

          Comment by Anonymous — March 16, 2009 @ 11:14 pm | Reply

  307. Some forms of income in India are tax-exempt, subject to the conditions specified in Indian law, as follows:

    A standard exemption of INR 100,000 on the income of an Indian resident.
    Income from a tax – exempt dividend held by the recipient but the company is liable for a dividend distribution tax.
    Compensation from an insurance company.
    Severance pay in accordance with the provisions of Indian law.
    A pension from work.
    That part of income from a salary that is for rent, vacation, recreation, education of children and more, subject to the specified ceilings.
    A capital gain from transfer of a residential property that has been held for a long term when the proceeds are invested in the purchase of another residential property.
    Capital gain from the sale of listed shares held for a long term.

    Comment by Indian — March 15, 2009 @ 1:01 pm | Reply

  308. How much did cisco received as bailout?
    Will cisco get govt. contract for setting up infrastructure? what is the $$ value?
    is cisco CTO got selected under President Obama’s technical advisor board?

    Comment by walid — March 16, 2009 @ 6:47 am | Reply

    • No bailout. Cisco has plenty of cash (~$30billion) and is healthy.

      Comment by Anonymous — March 16, 2009 @ 11:14 pm | Reply

      • $30B in the bank and is healthy. Then why a layoff?

        The bottom 5% is in danger anyway, even in good times. Normal attrition is about 5%. Add the two is 10%.

        What is the reason for the layoff?

        There is no good reason, a layoff could be avoided by reducing waste, delay building plans, 5% salary decrease for VP’s & directors. Or how about withdraw some money from the bank.

        Comment by anonymous — March 17, 2009 @ 4:05 pm | Reply

    • $0 bailout.

      Comment by A — March 16, 2009 @ 11:25 pm | Reply

  309. Welcome to the Inhuman Network.

    Comment by S — March 17, 2009 @ 8:22 am | Reply

  310. Whatever may be the case, but in past 2 years, couple of jokers had been recruited in India specific to CustAdvo who really doesn’t get along with Cisco’s vision but using trying to built up stories around that vision & fooling the team mates & sub-ordinates. First such toxic people needs to be thrown out which creates political environments rather than competitive.

    Comment by Serv — March 18, 2009 @ 9:56 am | Reply

    • Are you one of those “jokers” who were recruited in India?

      What a retarded oxymoron!!!

      Comment by SlumDog — March 20, 2009 @ 4:05 pm | Reply

  311. Good Joke – Ref:315

    Comment by S — March 19, 2009 @ 11:14 am | Reply

  312. Latest update on layoffs
    Cisco will cut 14% of FTE
    contractors pay will be slashed by 15%, else the door is that way
    collapse of management levels
    suspend/cancel some projects
    100% ban on all travel related expenses

    This will come out on April 1st. So raise your hands and clap.

    ~ SlumDog Millionaire

    Comment by SlumDog — March 20, 2009 @ 4:14 pm | Reply

    • hi slumdog, how you know this information.
      you know very detail.

      Comment by Anonymous — March 20, 2009 @ 4:28 pm | Reply

    • Hey Slum, collapse of management levels, cut travels and suspend/cancel some projects should have been done long before to avoid the layoffs.
      And most certainly the $30B in the bank said that Cisco could have avoided the layoffs if they choose to.

      Comment by anonymous — March 22, 2009 @ 10:10 am | Reply

    • Sounds like an April Fools post if I ever saw one.

      Comment by tigger — March 22, 2009 @ 9:45 pm | Reply

  313. IBM going to acquire Cisco,you all need to belive. This site suit for posting this.

    Comment by prab — March 24, 2009 @ 6:03 am | Reply

  314. No 319, Cisco is going to acquire IBM :)..Don’t spread these rumors.. It will take 2-3 yrs for them to integrate Sun..if at all the deal works out..

    Comment by esr — March 24, 2009 @ 10:57 am | Reply

  315. Hey SlumDog, How did you get this info, last week John was telling, he would prefer to 10 % pay cut instead of 10% job cut. I think it’s April fools joke :).

    Comment by esr — March 24, 2009 @ 11:04 am | Reply

    • He also refuses to admit that “restructurings” were layoffs. He is being less than honest with the employee base. Only place to get the truth is in his public comments as he can get thrown in JAIL for lying there. He lies to employees with a smile on his face, is a special kind of asshole.

      From a business perspective cutting salaries across the board makes very little sense because then EVERYONE starts looking for a new job, including your top performers.

      Comment by skeptic — March 24, 2009 @ 6:33 pm | Reply

      • According to John Chambers, it is not a layoff if less than 10% of the work force is terminated.

        Comment by Cisco Engineer — March 24, 2009 @ 11:46 pm | Reply

        • Isn’t the bottom 5% shown the door on a regular basis. So this is an on-going process and regular attrition. And in this economy Cisco can get the top 5% in the market as replacements. Makes perfect business sense, unless you have been shown the door.

          Comment by anonymous — March 25, 2009 @ 12:11 pm | Reply

  316. Chambers can call a layoff any fucking thing he wants. I just hope the ICE cops arrest him on H1 violations. Can you imagine the fun of a perp walk through the parking lot of Building 10? Someone would get a pic and that would instantly go viral.

    I hope that great day comes very soon. It WILL be a great day, to…….

    Comment by NYFB — March 25, 2009 @ 12:16 pm | Reply

  317. attend any cisco meeting or conference calls and it feels like indian food market. John chambers should change his name to Kumar Chambertha and migrate to India.. such a loser
    and low class CEO with the rest of his indian SVP/ VP/directors..

    Comment by bob — March 25, 2009 @ 7:57 pm | Reply

    • I want to see more balance in hiring, and promotion. Right now there are BU’s (bldg 15 is one of them) with directors, managers, engineers, even the HR guy are Indians. And they have Cisco India development/testing plus 3rd party software shops in India.

      Things are so obvious it is not even funny. Especially for those who are non-Indians and don’t quite get along with their style.

      Comment by anonymous — March 26, 2009 @ 8:34 am | Reply

      • Yes, for those not of Indian descent who have been outsourced, escorted out, layoffed, restructured, reassigned, put in the bottom 5% or just give up and quit, you don’t know if this is a big Indian conspiracy. The demographic in some BU’s speaks for itself. And there is nothing anyone can do about it.

        Comment by Anonymous — March 26, 2009 @ 9:40 am | Reply

  318. ouch

    Comment by OHBOY — March 26, 2009 @ 1:11 pm | Reply

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