LayoffBlog.com

January 25, 2009

US senator asks Microsoft about job cuts, H1B visas

According to Reuters: “A U.S. senator has asked Microsoft Corp about its plans to slash up to 5,000 jobs, urging the world’s biggest software company to preserve the jobs of Americans ahead of foreigners working on visas.

“The letter asked Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer to provide a breakdown of the jobs to be eliminated, and how many of those are individuals with H-1B visas and how many are Americans. Grassley also wants to know what the breakdown will be when the layoffs are complete.”

“I am concerned that Microsoft will be retaining foreign guest workers rather than similarly qualified American employees when it implements its layoff plan […] Microsoft has a moral obligation to protect these American workers by putting them first during these difficult economic times”, said Sen. Charles Grassley, an Iowa Republican.

72 Comments »

  1. […] 4 (1-25-2009): US senator asks Microsoft about job cuts, H1B visas Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Microsoft’s coffee-table shaped […]

    Pingback by Microsoft Layoffs today? « LayoffBlog.com — January 25, 2009 @ 9:40 pm | Reply

  2. Do you actually think these people will put Americans first? I highly doubt it. There has been such a favoritism given to outsourcing and H1B that it has actually CREATED our economic problem. And the people in charge, well they should be thrown in prison.

    Comment by YeaRight — January 26, 2009 @ 12:16 pm | Reply

  3. One must be able to take care of themselves before helping others.
    Offshoring and H1 B Visas should really be termed: “Economic Terrorism”.

    Think about that for a moment.

    Because really, you are harming your country, your countrymen, and your future generations’ economy. There should be limits to both number of visas as well as number of ‘offshored’ jobs–especially if a bailout is involved.

    For example, if a company asks for government money to sustain its business during these difficult times, the government should have the guption and foresight to REQUIRE that the company not have more than say, 15% of its workforce overseas. Afterall, government money comes from U.S. taxpayers.

    And the companies that continue to offshore are shooting themselves in the foot and are the real cause of this economy failing. You cannot expect the U.S. to spend, spend, spend without actually ever PRODUCING something.
    Chew on that for a few moments…

    Comment by Peter Van Aken — January 26, 2009 @ 3:44 pm | Reply

    • As for as tax is concern H1B visa worker also pay tax.So it’s not correct to say only Americans pay taxes.

      Comment by Rams — March 18, 2009 @ 4:25 am | Reply

  4. >REQUIRE that the company not have more than say, 15% of its workforce overseas

    OK then, in response to that we move COMPLETELY overseas.

    your move?

    Comment by BigCorp CEO — January 26, 2009 @ 4:03 pm | Reply

  5. I think you guys are so full of it.
    I still remember when there was this huge cry for foreign talents because Americans were either too lazy or unqualified to get the job done. Our industry was suddenly lagging IT people and the only solution was to bring in people from overseas, while Americans focused on their MBA to manage those people.
    Now that things start turning we cannot dump them like hot potatoes.
    I think equal opportunity should mean just that.
    Maybe we should also ask for a breakdown on Indian vs. Chinese vs. American vs. European. And once we go there, lets just look at peoples skin color just to make sure we keep ….
    I am disgusted.
    I have no sympathy for outsourcing either. Lets outsource management first.

    Comment by myphotoscout — January 26, 2009 @ 9:22 pm | Reply

    • I guess main problem with American is their life style. what they earn they spend it so they when they have any kind of emergency(health,accident etc) they don’t have money backup to support them thats why credit issue came in picture and causing slow down.

      Comment by Rams — March 18, 2009 @ 4:30 am | Reply

  6. #4: “OK then, in response to that we move COMPLETELY overseas. your move?” — to say you “bye-bye” and “good luck with selling your stuff completely overseas”.
    your move?

    Comment by MSEE — January 26, 2009 @ 10:15 pm | Reply

  7. You sound like an old fart “baby boomer”. A 50+ year old engineer who is technically thoroughly incompetent against the younger skilled H1-B coming in. A wimp who couldn’t make it beyond basic engineering in your organization, is at the lowest rung of the ladder, grown only in years!
    A grumpy old loser who whines all day long about how H1-B come and steal jobs, which you are incapable of holding on to in the first place.

    You are going after a handful of skilled immigrants. Why don’t you go after jobless losers with foreclosed homes instead who have screwed this economy up completely? But no, you want to be bailed out on the tax money of H1-B, don’t you?

    Instead sitting on your ass, get up and do some reality checks. The reality is that incompetent folks like you were laid off because you were among the lowest performers in your company – the bottom brass. What has that to do with H1-B? If they come in with fraud resumes and are low performers, they will also get kicked out along with you. Don’t have any illusions on that front.

    One day, due to losers like you, all the jobs will fly out of this country.

    Comment by Anonymous — January 26, 2009 @ 11:38 pm | Reply

  8. TO-Peter Van Aken
    FYI, Foreign workers pay equal (or sometimes even more) tax in USA and their dependents (H4)are not allowed to work .. they pay social security and medicare (they may not stay in USA that long to enjoy the benefits)..Now you think who contributes to tax dollars.

    Comment by Singh — January 27, 2009 @ 1:17 am | Reply

  9. This was bound to happen. Bringing in H-1Bs did not work. It’s time to end this economy killing program. U.S. citizens have the last secret weapon, the balot box. We need to vote out anyone who does not commit to dismantling this horrendous H-1B program. It was an experiment that had the opposite effect of what was intended. It’s time to end it.

    How anyone could think replacing the U.S. workforce would have no effect on the U.S. economy. It’s like burning the two legs of a chair and wondering why the chair is now useless.

    Comment by quagmire — January 27, 2009 @ 2:04 am | Reply

  10. I am amazed at the level of ignorance in his tread. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “experiment” as Quagmire calls it will be ended by the other end when people start to realize how it is really like in this country.
    Who wants to come and work their ass of for lazy guys in this country when they can stay and build a better country back home. There will be a time when the US will be begging for foreign labor and they will just laugh.

    Comment by myphotoscout — January 27, 2009 @ 8:43 am | Reply

  11. Guys…you keep talking about H1B visas but most of them who come here are on L1 visas these days which is a larger chunk than H1B. They come here on a so called “intra-company transfer” and work as consultants in various companies and the L2 visa holder who is spouse also automatically gets the permit to work from day one. The Greencard process time period also gets shortened due to the non-requirement for labor clearance for L1/L2 visa holders. So please don’t talk about H1B alone when there is another visa program being used for the same purpose in parallel.

    Comment by Anonymous — January 27, 2009 @ 9:58 am | Reply

  12. #11: I think the point is: do we need so many skilled workers on visas today? It does not really matter the type of their visas: H1B, L1/L2 visas, border jumpers, etc.

    Comment by Next cubicle — January 27, 2009 @ 10:21 am | Reply

  13. American citizens, are you tired of the hate, racism and slander of the H-1b’s who come into your country?

    You don’t have to look far to find it, you can find it in the comments above.

    If you’re FED UP with this garbage, contact your Sneators and congressman, and ask them to support Senator Grassley in his efforts

    Were the Iowans who contacted Grassley wasting their time?

    You never know until you try

    Comment by Anonymous — January 27, 2009 @ 11:21 am | Reply

  14. #13: dude, this is all about our job security; nothing to do with “hate, racism”

    Comment by Next cubicle — January 27, 2009 @ 2:05 pm | Reply

  15. I still cant understand why this H1-B topic came into picture.

    CEOs of companies like Lehman Brothers, who ran away with 310+ millions of dollars during their bankruptcy and CEO of Merryill Lynch who spent around $1.2 million for decorating his office in this troubled economic times. And that MADOFF guy, who is involved in the $50 Billion scandal which made an investor to commit suicide who lent around $5 billion.

    Here we can clearly see that there is problem in the system and not the people who work. Its also heard that there was a bill passed around 20 months before September 2008 when Lehman Brothers filed for Bankruptcy in front of the Bush administration and if not taken care, there would be worst situations(like the one we are facing), but the Bush administration just put it off for untold reasons.

    So looking into all these aspects, will removing H1_B workers solve this economic crisis? Definitely not! Whenever guys in top positions, like the CEOs, does some mischief its ultimately the employees or workers who are getting affected irrespective of whether he being an H1-B or a citizen of US.

    So guyz, it worthless fighting among ourselves, and its time that we start thinking to develop a system, for ourselves, and our future generations that will prevent anyone, again, from landing into this such a mess, which we are currently in. I know its hard for many in this tough times to pass each day which we are in, now, currently, but as we have done in the past(and will surely do now), we have to get out of this and live upto our values which we believe in.

    God Bless America.

    Comment by CEO_Lehman_brothers — January 27, 2009 @ 2:15 pm | Reply

  16. I agree with the senator in some degree. American workers should be protected, if possible. If you know the H1B or EBGC (employment-based green card) processes in details, you would know that the first stage of either one is to prove that there are no Americans or GC-holders who may work on that position. This is a requirement. I understand, the whole way how an employer proves this is questionable, but still. In this economic situation, obviously, there are A LOT domestic workers for almost ANY position: if not native American then GC-holder (former H1/L1 visa holder in most cases). So, the main condition of the H1 visa (and pending EBGC process) is not satisfied in this economic situation. That is why, the senator is right: fire aliens and leave Americans/GC-holder, IF POSSIBLE (I accept, that sometimes this is not possible, because of some kind of unique skill-set).
    Actually, I would go even further: void all current LCA and LC for pending EBGC (H1 and EBGC labor certifications) and force employers to get them again with much more strict requirements. That would protect domestic workers even better.

    Comment by Art — January 27, 2009 @ 2:42 pm | Reply

  17. IS THIS A BODDY JOKE ?

    What they’re looking for: Microsoft announced Jan. 22 that it would be cutting up to 5,000 jobs in the next year and a half. But it’s still looking for software design engineers, financial analysts, human resources, administrative and marketing and sales talent, particularly in online ad sales

    Comment by JOKER — January 27, 2009 @ 3:57 pm | Reply

  18. 2009 Best Companies rank: 38
    Top 3 locations: Redmond, WA; Issaquah, WA; Mountain View, CA
    Number of job openings (as of Jan. 13, 2009): Thousands

    What they’re looking for: Microsoft announced Jan. 22 that it would be cutting up to 5,000 jobs in the next year and a half. But it’s still looking for software design engineers, financial analysts, human resources, administrative and marketing and sales talent, particularly in online ad sales.

    Comment by JOKER — January 27, 2009 @ 3:58 pm | Reply

  19. #13,16: That is ONE solution, but things start to turn around and not everyone will be eager to reply.
    If we expect this situation to continue, there is prob. no harm in doing what you propose (except a general distaste), but if you think this ship will turn around at some point in the future you are better off not alienating everyone willing to work for you. If and when things improve, those qualified people will rather go where they are appreciated.
    It is one thing not to approve new H1-B and maybe even the right thing, I cannot make that call, but it is completely wrong to lay people off based on their immigration status.

    Comment by myphotoscout — January 27, 2009 @ 8:54 pm | Reply

  20. Ok guys..lets step back and try to analyze the problem. Here is the statement:

    “Microsoft announced Jan. 22 that it would be cutting up to 5,000 jobs in the next year and a half. But it’s still looking for software design engineers, financial analysts, human resources, administrative and marketing and sales talent, particularly in online ad sales”.

    It seems that Microsoft is using the current state of the economy to do its “internal cleansing”.

    All companies have employees(irrespective of race, visa status and color) who are not as “productive” as their counterparts as time passes and become a liability to the company .

    A bad economy is a great time and excuse for a company to get rid of all the stale minds and bring in some fresh thought and talent in the company.

    Thatz exactly what Microsoft is doing..its getting rid of unproductive people who command high salaries and high medical insurance costs and will replace them with fresher/younger/more productive talent.

    Comment by concerned_citizen — January 27, 2009 @ 9:49 pm | Reply

  21. “For many of the employees here on a visa, being laid off means that they have to leave the country on very short notice, in many cases uprooting families and children … We care about all our employees, so we are providing services and support to try to help every affected worker, whether they are US workers or foreign nationals working in this country on a visa,” Gellos statement continued.

    One analyst says that layoffs are rarely simple. In hiring, companies like Microsoft have been forced to look around the globe for qualified tech workers, partly because U.S. universities are not turning out enough new graduates in necessary fields to fill business’ needs.

    “It’s not like a traditional layoff where you’re cutting people across the board,” Matt Rosoff, analyst at Directions on Microsoft, told InternetNews.com.

    Comment by JOKER — January 28, 2009 @ 7:15 am | Reply

  22. =====
    “For many of the employees here on a visa, being laid off means that they have to leave the country on very short notice, in many cases uprooting families and children … We care about all our employees, so we are providing services and support to try to help every affected worker, whether they are US workers or foreign nationals working in this country on a visa,” Gellos statement continued.
    =====

    There are NO LEGAL ways to “provide services and support to try to help every (means, to visa-holders as well (Art)) affected worker” if the worker is H1/L1-visa holder and he is layoffed. There is a law, that requires to leave the country in 10 days, unless new job is found. All possible ways to help to stay in US after layoff would be more or less ILLEGAL.

    Comment by Art — January 28, 2009 @ 11:11 am | Reply

  23. #22: They will stay. This way or another, but they will not leave. Those old good times when companies were developing the Products (internet, Windows (!yes, Windows!)) which have changed the world are gone. Now the goal of these h1b workers is to come to this country, bringing somehow the entire family and relatives, and employ them (software QA, java coding, cab driving, fastfood business, etc.).

    Comment by Anonymous — January 28, 2009 @ 12:27 pm | Reply

  24. #23: Tada! H1B visa is well-known as a fastest way of legal immigration

    Comment by Anonymous — January 28, 2009 @ 12:43 pm | Reply

  25. “Let us in, provide us with well-paid jobs and give us Green Cards; otherwise we will go back to India and the jobs will follow us”. I love this!
    I think Obama should update his todo list.

    Comment by Anonymous — January 28, 2009 @ 12:48 pm | Reply

  26. ===
    “Let us in, provide us with well-paid jobs and give us Green Cards; otherwise we will go back to India and the jobs will follow us”
    ===

    Farewell!

    Comment by Art — January 28, 2009 @ 1:18 pm | Reply

  27. Companies are outsourcing to compensate for hiring freezes mandated by corporate officers where the demand for talent can’t meet existing qualified candidates. Funny thing is that after looking at the billable hours submitted for projects from offshoring it appears that it takes upward of 10 resources to do the same job assigned here to a single individual. For example; each of 10-15 resources share the same task since no one person has the skill set to tackle the task. The billable hours per individual on their timesheet is perhaps 2 hours a week each and they are watched like a hawk to keep their billing to a minimum.
    As one of those engineers who continues to employ just in time education to stay competative perhaps more Americans should invest in themselves before complaining.

    Comment by L — January 28, 2009 @ 2:41 pm | Reply

  28. I’d agree with the post by L: “Americans should invest in themselves before complaining”. However, there are a lot of former-H1/L1 – naturalized Americans or GC-holders – who are “talented and skilled”. I believe, there a lot of them on the market nowadays. So, these people should have advantage over H1/L1. And it is perfectly fine to discriminate by the immigration status (if skills and knowledge of H1 vs. domestic worker are comparable): read the law, whole set of laws is intended to protect citizens and permanent residents, not the aliens. Otherwise, why we discriminate and do not allow aliens to vote? Why US have border patrol and do not allow illegal immigrants (this is also the “immigration status”!) to overfill the US? Same here: it is much more important to provide work to domestic workers than to H1/L1 in current economic situation.

    Comment by Art — January 28, 2009 @ 4:43 pm | Reply

  29. Fact is, H1 Bs are hired because they have equal skill, but are less expensive. Corporations are not supposed to offer lower wages, but they do. That is a fact. Go ahead and dispute it, I don’t care, but it’s a simple fact, like it or not.

    Many corporations sell off their country for short-term, near-sighted profits, without thinking about about the long-term repurcussions.

    The system is broken. Free Market Economy to many means free to do whatever the hell you want at any cost. And that is economic terrorism.

    I’ve traveled the world, Asia, Europe, and people there have more rights then you and I do here. If you lose your job here, and your money runs out, you are SOL. “Get a job” some say. But if the jobs were sent elsewhere, then what do you do?

    I feel bad for people that are in that situation, and you should too. And if you truly love your country, you would step back and think about how you can contribute to fixing this country that continues to ship jobs elsewhere and look for the cheapest–rather than best route–of doing business.

    Comment by Peter Van Aken — January 28, 2009 @ 4:51 pm | Reply

  30. Cooks, drivers sent to US as engineers

    G S Vasu & Vikram SharmaFirst Published : 23 Jan 2009 01:48:00 AM ISTLast Updated : 23 Jan 2009 02:52:49 PM ISTHYDERABAD: A new dimension is emerging in the infamous Satyam saga. Information available with the Express suggests that thousands of people have been sent to the United States by the IT major on the basis of fake educational and employment certificates.

    Highly-placed sources told this paper that this has been happening over the years and it is possible that a significant number of them may or may not be with the company now.

    One reason for Satyam to resort to this step is the need for assistants of a varied nature — drivers, cooks, attenders, gardeners — for its highranking officials employed in the US.

    While Indians are available for a pittance, employing a US citizen for similar works is a far more costlier proposition. What is interesting is that a majority of those packed off to the US for sundry jobs (projecting them as engineers) come from villages in Ramalinga Raju’s native district West Godavari in coastal Andhra Pradesh. Most of them belong to his community.

    While Satyam employed North Indians in top positions, it chose those from Ahmedabad as low-level assistants.

    About 400 of them from Hyderabad figure in the long list of those sent to the US by manipulating the records. It is also possible that hiring officials in Satyam, who allegedly offered employment to job-seekers for pecuniary consideration, may have provided fake employment papers to those intending to go to the US if they are not Satyam associates.

    Politicians and others, whom Satyam has to keep in good humour, may also have used the Satyam label to obtain visas in cases where they have a vested interest.

    The CID wing of the AP Police, which is probing the Satyam scandal, has sniffed this angle too and is in the process of gathering details.

    Comment by Anonymous — January 28, 2009 @ 4:57 pm | Reply

  31. #28: I agree. The country should give a priority to it’s citizens and perm.residents over guest workers.

    Comment by Anonymous — January 28, 2009 @ 4:59 pm | Reply

  32. Dear so called Americans (or rather Non Native, Non Original Americans)
    I do understand your plight. If you are so against the foreign workers, why not the illegal foreign workers first…who don’t pay a penny as tax..are a burden to the entire tax paying community. You might have the right to say that H1B, L1/L2 visa holders should “go” first, but do not chew your words/turn your coat when economy revives.

    YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW THESE(H1,L1>>) GUYS CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR ECONOMY…starting from paying tax, to spending for vacation/entertainment/shopping…
    Every action has a equal and opposite reaction!!
    It will be interesting to see how companies like Microsoft will survive with so “White skinned brains”!…ofcourse after rewriting the policies of “equal opportunity”.

    I myself am not for “globalization”….please do your homework..as to how the entire thing called globalization,outsourcing etc started.

    Comment by Martian — January 29, 2009 @ 4:23 am | Reply

  33. #32: Nobody talks about “white skinned brains”. There are a lot of Martians…. hmmmm…. Indians and other nationalities who already have their Green Cards or even citizenship with equal skills with H1/L1 guys. I agree – H1s pay taxes. So what? Everybody pays. Citizens and GC-holders pay too (unfortunately!). Moreover, domestic guys are not going to bring their money to their countries to support foreign economies, since they live here, in US, permanently.
    And here is the fact: there are less jobs now. So, we have a choice: to support foreigners and foreign economies or to support domestic people and domestic economy. As simple as that. I guess, the choice is obvious.

    Comment by Art — January 29, 2009 @ 8:07 am | Reply

  34. Amusing. I live and work in india. I am an engineer and I think I am great at my work and well I make close to an American wage (about 50k an year excl benefits) in India at a fourth the cost of living. Maybe u guys should stop bitchin about all this, take a break, and get a job here :) and the country is ok too. We are reasonably less racist than you folks and definitely less of hypocrites here.(anyone who reads this thread would laugh out loud… Talk about free market, globalization and the stealing jobs). Another thing, I think anyone including the pilgrim fathers are foreigners in America who came with a begging bowl at one time or another!
    And lastly, we are losing jobs here as well but I think it’s just a cleansing where all the scum is washed out.

    Comment by Remo — January 29, 2009 @ 9:25 am | Reply

  35. #34, Remo: That are great news! I’m glad you have a job in India and not going to increase the army of H1Bs. I am even more glad you have highly paid job – “close to an American wage”, because in near future this fact will kill outsourcing to India. Actually, even now many companies are stopping the outsourcing projects because of bad quality and too hard and expensive management of such projects.

    Comment by Art — January 29, 2009 @ 9:41 am | Reply

  36. Unfortunately, what you say may not happen. If not India, the new army of English educated chinese, or the emerging slav countries. Keep in mind, America is the worlds best capitalistic country and it will choose the best business model to suit itself. So would you, if u were a businessman.
    Also, a blanket statement on quality is pretty baseless. Mindless typecasting is silly.

    Shalom, if that’s still an acceptable word for peace :D

    Comment by Remo — January 29, 2009 @ 10:01 am | Reply

  37. #36: Totally agree

    Comment by Anonymous — January 29, 2009 @ 10:07 am | Reply

  38. Will see.
    At least Obama agrees that outsourcing is evil:
    === http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/business/0,39044229,62050250,00.htm ===
    Inaugurated Tuesday as the 44th President of the United States, Obama had said during his campaign that if elected, he will stop giving tax breaks to corporations that outsource jobs and reward those that create jobs in America. The recent Satyam accounting scam, too, has scarred the Indian IT, potentially shaking market confidence.
    ===

    Comment by Art — January 29, 2009 @ 10:16 am | Reply

  39. Labor certification is not required for all H1B worker positions. It is perfectly legal to NOT look for a USC or LPR to fill a position before hiring an H1B visa holder or aspirant.

    Current students in STEM areas will have little chance of employment given the financial benefits to companies for hiring OPT applicants. Neither the employer nor the worker is required to pay SS or Medicare taxes. Initally OPT workers are not even required to be paid. Some new foreign national graduates will work for free for 12 months in order to have a chance to be sponsored for an H1B visa by his employer. It is called “training.”

    Comment by Cee — January 29, 2009 @ 12:09 pm | Reply

  40. #39: True, it is called LCA (labor condition application) for H1B, which is kind of simplified replacement for LC. I didn’t go into deep details of H1 & EBGC processes since it is off-topic. However, there are some DOL requirements for employer, for example, he has to put information about intent of H1B hire in the office for 10 business days.

    Comment by Art — January 29, 2009 @ 1:00 pm | Reply

  41. Good Luck to America, to try and advance now, if it takes out its intelligent minds a.k.a the H1 workers. You people talk through your teeth. Get your facts right. H1 workers are not employed because of lower pay scales. They are offered around the same pay scale as any of you. Hiring is based on an individual’s performance. And H1 has been lying around for decades. The economy is crashing just since a few years. Do you really think its because of H1? Understand the mistakes the so called corporate management makes in its business. It has nothing to do with H1 replacing American workers. You just want to channel your anger somewhere and what better source than the always-taken-for-a ride H1 worker? Do you know the hardships the H1 worker goes through to get a job here? The first preference is always given to a citizen. Even then citizens cannot perform well and then an H1 worker is given a job. talks about cheap labour being the reason for H1 employment is so damn stupid and you know that very well.

    Comment by good luck — January 29, 2009 @ 2:46 pm | Reply

  42. #41, of course, economy is crashing not because of H1, who told you this? But since economy is crashing (for any reasons) number of jobs is decreasing. This is just a matter of fact. And there are a lot of former H1/L1 who may satisfy the market in current economic conditions. H1s are really useful when economy is growing and in great conditions. But not now.

    Comment by Art — January 29, 2009 @ 3:46 pm | Reply

  43. The H1 workers may work for similar wages, but they work much harder because of the constant fear of being “reviewed out” of their jobs and sent packing. The visa programs are broken. “American” companies that insist on employing 50% or more “foreign” workers, should STFU and Get TFU out of America, we don’t need those kinds of companies anyway.

    Comment by anonymous — January 29, 2009 @ 10:59 pm | Reply

  44. I have never seen a skilled H1b visa holder, they come out of school just like we all did, knowing nothing about the work we were expected to do.

    But I have meet many who had falsified resumes which claimed experience they could only have gotten by working full time while attending college for both their BS amd MS, These H1b visa applicants are specifically coached to “pump up” their resumes in this manner in order to meet the “highly skilled” category so employers in the USA can point to these resumes as proof of their H1b visa holders skills.

    I have seen H1b visa holders hired to a brief company generic job description, something usually used to hire a new college grad, and the later that same company will have to re-post the position to prove that no qualified americans are available, they will post a very detailed (down to the DNA gene sequence) for 1 day, in the local paper, on a monday and use the detailed posting to justify that no qualified american applied, assuming anyone sees it at all. note that these postings are not on the company website in some cases, just the local paper and sometimes they are posted at un-employment offices only and not on the company website.

    the fix is in and there is nothing we can do about it, given that we only have 2 parties and they are both willing culprits in this crime against america.

    Comment by chip_engineer — January 30, 2009 @ 8:13 am | Reply

  45. I agree the H1B’s should be the first to go. Why? Well, cost for one thing, companies have to pay allot of money (both in dollars and manpower hours) to complete the visa process on behalf of the H1B employee. Secondly, having a large H1B staff means that sooner or later the work visa’s will expire and the person that has been trained up goes back to India taking their expereince and skillset with them. This will promote future offshoring which just makes the economy here worse. Not only that, but we need people spending ALL their money here and not sending it overseas.

    As for the person that said Americans are too lazy or ignorant, you show your own ignorance by making that statement. For many years the IT industry demanded far too more IT engineers than colleges and companuies could train. Also, H1B’s are no different than any citizen when it comes to knowledge and experience. You have good and bad individuals just like anyplace else. I have seen my fair share of ignorant H1B’s as well as talented H1B’s.

    I think the senator is making a logical decision to retain domestic jobs, not only now but down the road.

    Comment by pakistan — January 30, 2009 @ 11:21 am | Reply

  46. No doubt that everybody must be patriotic. For H1/L1/X1, they are not a part of this country anyway. Decency, democracy and equal oppotunity only makes sense when we need them. I suggest from tomorrow on

    1. Everybody must check their family tree and find out how many years their family has been in American. All families have been in American shorter than Senator Grassley’ family must give up their properties unless no other Sr. Americans want. They must move out their houses unless no other Sr. Americans want. All kids of those families must quit from the best colleges unless no Sr. Americans’ kids want.

    2. Every man or woman in this country that pays less taxes than Senator Grassley must quit their jobs unelss no other Sr. Americans want.

    3. Change H1B law. The position must be checked every 5 mins 24/7. H1B holders must quit their jobs whenever there is one Sr. American wants it.

    Under God, every Sr. American, such as Senator Grassley, is equal

    Comment by Sr. American — January 30, 2009 @ 6:43 pm | Reply

  47. I live in an area heavily populated by software companies. The unemployment has risen and it is up to 5% but the population of H1 visa holders has risen.

    Fact:

    -Now that we have taken care of illegal immigration, more American Engineers and Skilled workers can access McDonalds and Wal-Mart for work.
    -H1 Visa holders do not spend money like their American counterparts, hence we have economic stagnation. That is why we are where we are.
    -Yes, H1 visa do pay taxes BUT most of their spending dollars which keep the economy afloat go to their home countries.
    -Corporations now basically asked for a PHD and a Master’s in computer science to answer helpdesk calls and lower techsupport jobs. Not all H1 visa holders work as engineers.
    -I welcome all foreigners to the US, but first we need to take care of ourselves before we solve the world’s problems.

    Comment by Daniel — February 1, 2009 @ 12:12 pm | Reply

  48. #47 (Daniel):
    1. “more American Engineers and Skilled workers can access McDonalds and Wal-Mart for work” — not necessarily, especially if hiring manager is, say, hispanic. Same true if you decide to become a RN in, say, Kaiser, SF Bay area: their phillipino ‘family’ of nurses will not let you in (they will help you out).
    2. Sure the H1B workers (especially from India) will be saving money! Their H1B visa is a just a gateway into the US! They did not come to work as a ‘foreign worker’! Only idiots think otherwise. The newcomers will soon become managers, recruiters, real estate agents, etc. A later on they will replace those local MBA idiots who brought them in on visas.
    3. They are mostly investing into self-education (for themselves and their spouses): the next step for them is to become a manager (who f**g wants to be a code monkey!). And economy needs to bring a fresh H1B to fill the position. As a result we see thousands of ‘body shops’, ‘vendors’ and ‘IT consultant groups’ owned by indians. Open Dice.com page, search for IT java positions and read the recruiters names: only Praveen, Ganesh, Shilpa, Ashok, Ajay, etc.
    4. Indian bachelors degree in computer science obtained for 2 years in ITT is not enough to become a real engineer.
    5. The economy will not be able to employ this huge army of indian java coders.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 1, 2009 @ 12:44 pm | Reply

  49. Whoa. I too had the belief that maybe foreign workers were better than American Engineers. That was before I had a few years of programming experience. My first job was in a small Indian-run company and the developers there were great: hardworking, qualified, intelligent. But since then I have met so many workers from India that suck: Unqualified, speak TERRIBLE English and have little education.

    In addition, I have met over the years many really talented, hardworking and qualified Americans! I have worked pretty much all over the East Coast and Overseas, by the way. I’m also black, so there. I think the real issue is that software developers in the US cost too much money. Our salaries were rising and our skillset is hard to learn. The average person would need many years to learn how to write new programs and to have the background to learn new languages and apply them to solve problems. Most of the American developers I know started pretty young and started to program at home for fun in additon to studies at Universities and internships.

    If H1B developers were not here, American software developers would probably bankrupt several American corporations with our salary demands ;)

    That’s probably the jist: money. The H1B program was created fill a need, and if demand has gone down, then they probably should go back home. That’s not nice to the person who has the H1B, but the companies told the US government that they needed foreign workers because there were not enough American citizens to do the work. If the amount of work is halved, then the guest workers have to go home.

    If you think about it, we have enough Americans to fill these remaining jobs. I also believe that you can get a more creative and productive work environment with people from different backgrounds. That’s easy, too. As long as employers give a chance to any qualified American, they can have a company with a diverse workforce even without H1B-holders. US citizens have roots all over the world.

    Comment by ShaNaNa — February 1, 2009 @ 1:29 pm | Reply

  50. If any organisation is retaining foreign guest workers. This is what you may have to do.

    If you know any foreign guest worker who is retained. The possiblity is that the organisation is also applying for Green Card for all these candidates. More often the job title of the candidate on the Green Card process is different than the actual job title, USCIS is unaware in most of the cases. The salary, the educational qualification is also different for most of the cases. This is because the Green Card has to be filed based on certain norms.

    Please inform USCIS and provide them with the details of the candidate, the location etc. Also cc these two Senators Durbin and Grassley. USCIS will take action. May be we can get some jobs back.

    Please pass these to all your friends and family members.

    Please act now, also add this to all the blogs that you know.

    Please act now…..

    Comment by Anonymous — February 1, 2009 @ 2:22 pm | Reply

  51. We should penalized all the outsourcers and h1b visa users with huge unemployment taxes. Let’s make protectionism synonymous with patriotism. What kind of a dumb ass doesn’t want to protect his family, job, home, country, etc???
    Bill Gates’ mother barks and his wife sux green donkey dix.
    But don’t worry. When unemployment hits 13% (like in Spain) we will send all the indians back where they came from.

    Maybe its time for another boston tea party.

    Comment by spanky — February 1, 2009 @ 5:14 pm | Reply

  52. DEY TURK UR JAWB! (They took our jobs):

    Comment by DEY TURK UR JAWB — February 2, 2009 @ 4:39 pm | Reply

  53. Someone shud comment on ppl coming on student Visa from other countries, spending lot of money on education, ultimatley tht money is going to Govt. in form of Taxes etc. Wht wrong if tht student applies for H1 in this country and want to work.??????

    Comment by NICk — February 3, 2009 @ 11:39 am | Reply

  54. #53, nothing’s wrong, while unemployment rate is low. Otherwise, US workers should have priority anytime.
    Plus, I would vote for introducing per-country cap for H1 visas. This per-country cap exists for employment based green cards and, I believe, should exist for H1 visas too.
    Also, DOL should issue more strict requirements for companies who sponsor H1 visas: they really should demonstrate good efforts in searching for domestic worker before they are allowed to hire H1. IMO.

    Comment by Art — February 3, 2009 @ 12:50 pm | Reply

  55. A student paying full tutition does not cover the cost of his education. Every international student at a state funded institution costs the state’s taxpayers money. To add injury to insult (turn about intended) is that internationmal students displace state residents at universities, particularly the flagship universities – such as the Berkley and Texas – which are limiting the enrollment of fully qualified, US citizen or LPR state residents.

    A student entering the US on a student visa must demostrate ties to their home country and their desire to return home. Any student entering the US on a student visa who remains has lied about his intentions.

    As for the OPT and CPT programs, few people realize that neither the students nor the employers participating in these programs have to social security and Medicare taxes on the wages paid to OPT and CPT workers. This significant finacial advantage to the employers is costing USC and LPR citizens entry level job opportunities. Nearly 10% of twentysomethings are looking for work; far more recent college grads are looking for jobs in their fields. Some of this is a result of out student worker and guest worker policies.

    Our immigration policy is destroying opportunities for Americans. The irony is that many immigrants who first entered using these programs are finding themshelves now as USCs or LPRs displaced by guest workers and the childern displaced by foreign students.

    Comment by Cee — February 3, 2009 @ 2:35 pm | Reply

  56. I am a H1 and i will point few facts.
    Most of the hiring decisions are done by American managers. They deffenetly look for talent .Even If you fake it you wont last a week here. Many people here dont notice but when a company has to layoff it mostly laysoff the unproductive (could be h1 too).I know some people can exploit this situation to keep someone cheap but its a short term strategy which always fails. Microsoft is laying off its Windows live project which is a waste of money and there is nothing wrong with that. But to fire h1b’s only is poking your nose into thier business. A citizen naturally has higher ground when it comes to number of jobs .The high end managers or good architects are always on demand even “now” .so i think getting more skill’s in this ever changing world makes your job secure than playing the citizen only card. Seriously why will a sane manager remove a good (well spoken) citizen to some forginer.Get real outsourcing is real and it will just grow soon china will also join the party with its all english curiculum Then you have a billion more to complain.

    Comment by sense — February 4, 2009 @ 2:44 pm | Reply

  57. American workforce is damn costly and its capitalism which made american companies conquer far corners of the world and its capitalism which shifts the jobs elsewhere . America has always adapted to it and profited and both these qualities are two sides of a coin you cant cherry pick one. deal with it our jobs in future will be even more effected due to globalisation u can make the best of it or worst of it.

    Comment by sense — February 4, 2009 @ 3:40 pm | Reply

  58. The father of all problems is the existence of frontiers, borders and countries. If it weren’t for those, wealth would not be a right only for those who were born next to it. All wars happen because of money, money that’s in the wrong side of the fence. And here we are, slamming each other because one was born here and another chose to move here later. I know it’s very difficult, but let’s try to get away from the whole “patriotism” thing. Some of you blame the H1-Bs as the source of all evil. I dare to say patriotism is the source of all evil. Praised and taught in every school, the patriotism generates in the person a very bad sense of entitlement and one of the worst forms of prejudice. That statement by this Iowa Senator is prejudice at its peak. I can’t believe he did not go to jail for this. What about equal opportunity employment that the US are so proud about? The Senator is promoting exactly the opposite: save the Americans, fire the unworthy that were born elsewhere. Is this one world or what? Think about it.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 4, 2009 @ 10:06 pm | Reply

  59. #58: hmmm…. Yes, there are equal opportunities, BUT not for foreigners. Means, all people are equal, but some of them MORE equal than others. This is NORMAL and exists in EVERY country in this damned world. Try to get work in European Union not being an EU citizen. Try to get first job in Canada, even if you have PR, but don’t have “canadian experience”. You need to look for another planet, probably.

    Comment by Art — February 5, 2009 @ 10:08 am | Reply

  60. America can get profit by selling Coke-Pepsi,iPod,Microsoft OS in other countries,by destroying countries,killing people that is justified…americans are very happy with that. Who has given the right to americans to enter in others territory…these bulshit guys should be banned in whole world…to hell with MS,

    Comment by Anonymous — February 6, 2009 @ 8:49 am | Reply

  61. This is a useless talk whether to curb Non-americans to work in america. The fact is, if American govt curbs non-american to work in america, then the whole economic system will ruin, as the economic infrastructure of USA is managed by non-americans. There is no need of removing H1B or other VISA holders, if americans have enough competencies, they can fight. It is always said ” Survival of the fittest”

    Comment by Krish — February 8, 2009 @ 5:22 am | Reply

  62. Yes, American jobs should be given to Americans and not to foreigners. All American companies and banks should do their business in US. They should not sell anything to any other country, not admit any foreigners to their universities, should send back all those who migrated from different parts of the world and leave this land of opportunity to it’s natives – the aborigines.
    Guys, grow up!, this is the global world and everything effects everybody here. Your banks and banks everywhere else have taken toll on lives of citizens whom not even their governments support.
    BTW, I am not a US PR, HR,greencard holder. Just observing this tread and how people of this great land spit venom in the times of crisis.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 8, 2009 @ 11:28 pm | Reply

  63. Someone mentioned it is important to raise the H1b quota.In my personal opinion,it doesn’t make sense to raise quota. It is very important to *REFORM* the H1b system so that folks on H1b visa don’t have to leave the country when they’re laid off .It is also important to make them less dependent on their employers to prevent abuse.

    Currently,too many are here who are not able to do what they want or they’re working well below their capabilities because of limitations of the H1b system.

    There are a few things the government can do:
    * Give them green cards after they pay taxes for a certain number of years.
    * Allow them independence after they work for an employer for a certain period.
    * Allow them to start a business or a company, invent or create technology while being on a work visa. Currently,it is not possible due to limitations of the H1b visa system.
    * Allow them to stay and change jobs if they’re laid off.

    The h1-b visa system is broken. It needs to be repaired urgently.The H1b system is designed in a such a way that it is against them and it is a “take it or leave it” visa. Please don’t forget that H1bs are REAL people LIVING in America and they deserve to be treated under the laws of constitution which apply to citizens.It doesn’t matter whether they are citizens are not .They are living in America and are part of the community wherever they are.Most Americans don’t really get this.You know what, Most Americans are psyched that they have freedom and they don’t realize that H1b folks don’t have any freedom. Why are you content with the system? Do you want to have double standards for yourself and others?

    There are many other countries such as Germany which are highly attractive for Engineers. One advantage of Germany is that German government doesn’t treat its engineers or workers (citizens or not) as commodities and throw them away when they’re laid off. Everyone in Germany is protected by laws, whether they’re citizens or not.

    President Obama mentioned he is going to reform the system and allow skilled workers to get permanent residence.We’ll have to wait and see.

    Everyone on H1b visa and supporters of H1b visas might consider the above suggestions and write to your local senators , goverment officials with suggestions for H1b visa reform.

    Comment by A — February 8, 2009 @ 11:30 pm | Reply

  64. Please. The Redmond area has become Asia Micro. The H-1s are cheaper, so you can bet they will be the last grunts to go. Microsoft will NEVER comply with Grassley’s request. Microsoft doesn’t give a hoot about anything but the bottom line. Like many companies, they started off with a good idea, capitalized on it and now THEY are the “old fart.” That goodness Google, Apple, FOSS, and more focused software companies making much better software (e.g. Salesforce) will leave them in the dust as a dinosaur. Think about it, with their 90K employees they still can’t create a decent search-engine, not to mention one that is better than Google. And now with the blistering Apple Safari 4, I think IE will be fighting for its life. This is a sweet story to my ears.

    Yeah, keep the H-1s to create the crap.

    Comment by zebra — February 26, 2009 @ 6:30 pm | Reply

  65. I was laidoff at MS and I could not believe the number of H1B idiots running around. Half of them could not speak for shit or form a proper English sentence! I’ve wasted more time hand holding these idiots through projects when I could be getting real work done. When I hear people talk about how we need foriegn talent I think of what a waste of time. There’s plenty of Americans with talent, the problem in the past was that availability of American talent was slim since they were all WORKING… well, the times have changed, and it’s time we invest in our own god forsaken country – our people!!

    Comment by Anonymous — March 10, 2009 @ 9:11 am | Reply

    • You missed the one key component. it is not about the skill level of the person .. it is 100% about the cost .. I work for IBM and we are continously laying off US ibm’rs in favor of CHEAP indians, chinese, costa ricans, brazilians etc .. If this is not turned around then this country is doomed..

      Comment by Anonymous — March 10, 2009 @ 10:49 am | Reply

  66. I was just going through all the posts .Looks like there is lot of hatred among Americans towards Indians and others taking up jobs in America using H1B. I feel that if Americans want to protect jobs for themselves then American companies should not do business with the world .They should pull out businesses from other countries and only concentrate doing business with ppl in America .Because if you want business of all other countries then you also should have the patience to tolerate people who would come to your country and take up your jobs.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 12, 2009 @ 7:48 am | Reply

  67. to be realistic, most companies(American or foreign) lay off people based on

    works done
    ratio = ———– + coefficient * personalities
    cost

    if a person is laid off, either because his/her ratio is low. or because he/she is unlucky(he/she was in a project/group that is not important any longer).

    To lay off a person only based on citizenship is stupid and naive.

    Comment by Sr. American — March 12, 2009 @ 6:33 pm | Reply

  68. Sue!

    No company wants to deal with a lawsuit!

    Comment by Seymour Butts — March 18, 2009 @ 11:57 pm | Reply


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